Obama's support for Ground Zero Mosque

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They all follow one guy, and what he said ain't pretty. When they want to die, what do they often do? They decide to make god happy by killing some non-Moslems (along with themselves.) Up until then, they are usually pretty cool folks, huh. I guess that the prophet telling them that's what God wants ....has no importance to you. Well, it does to me. I think it's pretty damn important stuff that you should wise up to.

What a complete load of crap.

Okay - your turn.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

this is like suggesting that all jews and christians are bound by leviticus.

as much as non-theism colors my views, i'm not walking around suggesting that the majority of western society is committing daily blood sacrifice.

the muslim world is a mixed bag. a very little is scary 7th century. much more isn't. for our own sake, i hope we don't drive the part that isn't into the arms of those that are.

Oh? They gunna deny the things he said that are causing all the problems? If they don't believe in harming non-Muslims, then they can say their prophet was wrong about it. Until then, they just aren't following something they probably think they should be following. I mean, wtf else wouldn't they say it's wrong?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

What a complete load of crap.

Okay - your turn.

Load of crap? Dude in Texas followed it exactly. He was told that killing non-Muslims is worth more where he's going. Bingo..Bunch of non-Moslems met their maker.

[Riot]

We already had this thread 12/2008. Same people, same opinions.

The Quran describes a religious belief system based upon peace, mercy and forgiveness.

The Quran is insistant that, more than any other religion, believers should be completely tolerant and respectful of other religions, and people who are not Muslim have the same rights and respects as Muslims.

The Quran say that God created all humans equal and free, and one is never to be prejudiced based upon race or color.

The Quran recognizes Jesus as a religious prophet whose teachings are to be followed.

The Quran follows much of the Bible Old Testament.

The Quran says that to commit an act of terrorism is wrong, and is a violation of the basic tenants of Islam (the Five Pillars).

Terrorism is not tolerated within Islam, any more than it is tolerated within Christianity.

The Quran defines jihad as a struggle against evil thoughts, actions, oppression and aggression against person, family, society or country.

"Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not begin aggression. for God loves not aggressors." (Qur'an 2:190)

There is no such thing as an "Islamic Terrorist" in Islam or the Quran.

The promise of 40 virgins in heaven for committing suicide is fiction - it is not in Islam and it is not in the Quran.

Suicide is not permitted in Islam, it is viewed exactly as it is in Christianity - wrong, and it doesn't get you to heaven.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

After the b.s. Here's the truth:


Here is the belief system this con man set up:



1. A standardized version of the idea-collection is written down.

2. The Qur’an includes instructions for its own spread.

3. The idea-collection includes instructions for its own preservation, protection, and replication fidelity.

^^^^^^^^^These first three ideas are pretty standard for several successful religions.

4. Islam commands its followers to create a government that supports it. Other groups of religious people have had political aspirations, but no other major religious group orders its followers — as a religious duty — to create a government that follows its own system of law. This is why it's so obvious that Turkey's leader is a liar. He is a devout Muslim, and unless he is defeated, that country will be forced into Sharia Law. When he says he doesn't want to do that, it's an absolute Turk lie (common as beach sand.)

5. Permission to spread the religion by war. The poor non-Muslims not living in an Islamic state need to be saved from the sin of following laws other than Allah’s. If they won’t voluntarily change their laws to Shari’a, then it is the duty of Muslim warriors to insist. The world cannot be at peace until every government on earth follows the laws of Allah.

6. Lands must be conquered. According to Islamic teachings, the earth is Allah’s. If there are parts of the earth not following Islamic law, it is the duty of the faithful to gain control of that land and establish Shari’a. It is a sin to let it be.

7. The idea-collection provides for new soldiers by allowing polygamy. A Muslim man can marry up to four wives, and he can have sex with as many slave girls as he wishes.

8. It is a punishable offense to criticize Islam. You can see why this one is a good supporting idea for the collection. It helps suppress any ideas that would reduce the authority of Islamic ideas. Again, this is why Moslems start shake shake shaking when you ask them why they won't say the prophet's words are causing evil (like 9/11.)

9. You can’t leave Islam once you’re in. This is a critical part of Shari’a law. Someone who has rejected Islam who was once a Muslim is an “apostate.” This is a crime and a sin, and the punishment for it is death (and eternal damnation in hell thereafter).Gee, Riot, Could this be why you see all those countries with Moslem population percentages in the hi 90's?

10. Islam must be your first allegiance.

11. Dying while fighting for Islam is the ONLY way to guarantee a man’s entrance into Paradise. Hence, the Texas massacre.

12. You must read the Qur’an in Arabic. This unites believers by language, and language is a very powerful unifying phenomenon. For added incentive to learn Arabic, another idea in the collection says you can’t go to Paradise unless you pray in Arabic.


13. You must pray five times a day. The practice helps the idea-collection dominate a Muslim’s life, infusing his daily rhythm with Islam.

14. The prayers involve moving together in time. When people move together in time, whether dancing or marching or praying, it creates a physical and emotional bond between them.

15. A woman is in a thoroughly subordinate position. By subordinating women, the idea-collection prevents their effective vote against war, violence, and conquest.

16. The only way a woman can get into Paradise for sure is if her husband is happy with her when she dies. She might have a chance to get into Paradise if she’s a good Muslim, the only way she can guarantee she will go to Paradise (and avoid eternal suffering in hell) is to make sure her husband is happy with her when she dies.

17. Allah gives Himself permission to edit his own work. Mohammad only managed to win 150 followers. But as a military leader and violent conqueror, he was able to subjugate all of Arabia to Islamic law in less than 10 years. The peaceful ways were too slow. Conversion by conquering and establishing Shari’a was much faster and more efficient. So later, violent, intolerant verses abrogate the earlier peaceful, tolerant passages

18. The Qur’an uses the carrot and stick to reinforce behavior. Hell, or paradise.

19. It provides a huge and inspiring goal. Leaders of countries or companies or religions have all discovered that you can get the most motivation and enthusiasm from your followers if you provide them with an expansive vision — an enormous goal. In the Islamic idea-collection, the goal calls for a continuous effort to expand the domain of Islamic law until all the world is subjugated to it.

20. Non-Muslims must pay a large tax. Once Muslims conquer a country and convert the government to Islamic law, any non-Muslims have the choice between becoming Muslim or becoming a dhimmi. Dhimmis are allowed to practice their non-Muslim religion if they pay the jizya (a tax). If they convert to Islam, they no longer have to pay a tax, so there is a practical incentive to convert.

21. A Muslim is forbidden to make friends with an infidel. A Muslim is allowed to pretend to be a friend, but in his heart he must never actually be a friend to a non-Muslim. Even you non-Moslem Apologists...They aren't your friends. Recognize it.

22. The Qur’an counsels the use of deceit when dealing with infidels. Mohammad instructed one of his followers to lie if he had to (in order to assassinate one of Mohammad’s enemies). The principle was clear: If it helps Islam, it’s okay to deceive non-Muslims. Riot, how you miss this going on ya list?

23. Islam must always be defended. This idea is a primary linchpin that gives justification for war with almost anybody, as you’ll see in the idea below. After the enemy is defeated, of course, Muslims are required to establish an Islamic state.

24. Islamic writings teach the use of pretext to start wars. The principle of pretext means you try to provoke a hostile reaction and then use the hostile reaction as a reason to escalate hostilities. Flotilla so we can kill ya.

25. The explicit use of double standards. Islam has one standard for Muslims, and a different standard for non-Muslims, which always gives the advantage to Muslims and within a Muslim country, it provides incentives to convert. Hypocrisy Pinata

26. It is forbidden to kill a Muslim (except for a just cause). It is not forbidden to kill an infidel. This causes a bond between Muslims, fear in non-Muslims, and motivation to become Muslim. This is also another example of an explicit Islamic double standard. Hypocrisy is again a theme in this "religion. As you can see, for non-Muslims, this is a religion that never claims to be anything but painful."
__________________

[Riot]

But, thankfully, this is America.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[Round Pen]

I did not want to go through and read all 300+ post in this thread and I am not sure if this has been Mentioned.

How many of you realize that during the 9/11 Attacks that one Church was destroyed??? It was A Greek Orthodox Church Named St Nicholas. And to this day they have been DENIED the right to Rebuild at Ground Zero were it orginally stood. Why hasn't out President Stood up for St Nicholas???? I cannot answer that Question but he does have time to lend his Support for a Mosque to be Built at GZ(which I Oppose).

Not Just to Orthodox Christian's, not just to Christian's but to all American's out there this little Church should be allowed to be rebuilt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No, you are the closed minded one here. You continue to ignore the fact these people simply follow their prophet's teachings when they kill non-Moslems. They aren't rogue in the eyes of their prophet. When it comes to Islam, the facts are not on your side. You're holding the water for people who (if in the majority) would take away so many freedoms woman take for granted here.
This religion is serious business. They aren't playing, and you're dead wrong for believing people who follow a butcher. They've been given the right to lie to you(if it helps Islam.)

lol


yeah, ok scuds. i didn't say i wanted to be a muslim, just like i no longer consider myself catholic. however, you're completely ignoring the fact that one, thankfully small, group of muslims is intent on killing anyone without their ultra-whacko view, including a sizable group of muslims who disagree with them. but all muslims are the same? if they're all the same exact bunch, why aren't they all running around killing everyone else? why are many of them a target by other muslims? why are some muslim countries far more 'westernized' than others?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

this is like suggesting that all jews and christians are bound by leviticus.

as much as non-theism colors my views, i'm not walking around suggesting that the majority of western society is committing daily blood sacrifice.

the muslim world is a mixed bag. a very little is scary 7th century. much more isn't. for our own sake, i hope we don't drive the part that isn't into the arms of those that are.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

I did not want to go through and read all 300+ post in this thread and I am not sure if this has been Mentioned.

How many of you realize that during the 9/11 Attacks that one Church was destroyed??? It was A Greek Orthodox Church Named St Nicholas. And to this day they have been DENIED the right to Rebuild at Ground Zero were it orginally stood. Why hasn't out President Stood up for St Nicholas???? I cannot answer that Question but he does have time to lend his Support for a Mosque to be Built at GZ(which I Oppose).

Not Just to Orthodox Christian's, not just to Christian's but to all American's out there this little Church should be allowed to be rebuilt.

from what i've read, it seems the port authority is dragging its feet a bit because this church was right across the street from one of the towers. has anyone actually decided what to do about the actual site? what kind of construction, if any, where the towers stood?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

lol


yeah, ok scuds. i didn't say i wanted to be a muslim, just like i no longer consider myself catholic. however, you're completely ignoring the fact that one, thankfully small, group of muslims is intent on killing anyone without their ultra-whacko view, including a sizable group of muslims who disagree with them. but all muslims are the same? if they're all the same exact bunch, why aren't they all running around killing everyone else? why are many of them a target by other muslims? why are some muslim countries far more 'westernized' than others?

Yea, they are not as bold when they're in the minority. You're naive to think they wouldn't cutback on women's rights in this country (as soon as they had the power to do so.) How much do you think they are costing England due to inbreeding? Ain't cheap taking care of their stubborn mistakes. We aren't gunna end up like England.When they come here, they better leave this shyt behind. We aren't gunna put up with the extreme Islam they brought into England. Democrats better not keep being apologists for crap like this inbreeding. Yea, they can legally come here, and build their mosques. The whole time, they are gunna know full well this isn't England, and they aren't welcome here. They are tolerated here. There is a difference, and they are gunna experience the difference. We will not be run over by this religion even 1 day more. They will get whatever basic rights they are due, and that's all. That's what this mosque thing is partially about. We want them to know that they better keep that extreme shyt tucked way tight inside themselves. Let there be no doubt about that. They are now informed. We don't have to like them. We have to tolerate them. Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc. embrace American Values. Islam never will. Cut the B.S. Threatening members with death (for leaving a religion) isn't an American value. If you really gave a damn about religious freedom, all of you apologists would care more about whether American Moslems are totally free to leave their religion. That's freedom of religion, too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...s-married.html

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea, they are not as bold when they're in the minority. You're naive to think they wouldn't cutback on women's rights in this country (as soon as they had the power to do so.) How much do you think they are costing England due to inbreeding? Ain't cheap taking care of their stubborn mistakes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...s-married.html

so, muslims are going to be able to circumvent the constitution when they grow large enough? that isn't going to happen. seems to me that many of the moderate muslims come here so they don't have to worry about dealing with their extremist brethren who throw acid in girls faces for daring go to school. they come here for freedom-seems like this would be the last place to come if they didn't want to be surrounded by a bunch of unclean infidels who believe in separation of church and state and have a secular government.

[Danzig]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38845340..._central_asia/

another attack by hardliners on muslims who don't believe as they do. no, this can't be right. all muslims are extremist hardliners who attack non-muslims....
see, scuds...by you saying we must not deal with them at all, you're saying people like those who send their girls to school should be handled the same as bin laden and his ilk. i'm saying these folks, who aren't crackpots, are the ones we need to be helping, allying with, so as to stop the terrorists who want things to be their way, only their way, period. you saying they're all the same is absolutely untrue. you're stereotyping this entire group, based on the actions of a few.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38845340..._central_asia/

another attack by hardliners on muslims who don't believe as they do. no, this can't be right. all muslims are extremist hardliners who attack non-muslims....
see, scuds...by you saying we must not deal with them at all, you're saying people like those who send their girls to school should be handled the same as bin laden and his ilk. i'm saying these folks, who aren't crackpots, are the ones we need to be helping, allying with, so as to stop the terrorists who want things to be their way, only their way, period. you saying they're all the same is absolutely untrue. you're stereotyping this entire group, based on the actions of a few.

I don't want to help them do anything but leave that religion. I don't want to pay for taking care of their inbreeding mistakes, or lose any more decent people (not even 1 more) when one of them decides to follow their prophets most severe teachings. These people follow the teachings of a butcher. Nothing good can come from somebody who chooses to follow such a person. You should make sure they have the freedom to leave that religion without being threatened by other members of that religion. That is the help they need. They deserve the right to get out. People who want to leave should feel secure to do so. That is the American Freedom of Religion that Moslems really need. Every American Moslem should be in that religion because they totally want to be in it. Not because they fear other Moslems.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

not at all. i was responding to honu's use of pearl harbor as an example. it was an exaggeration to make a smaller point.

i do think the idea that we restrict religious expression based on other's sensitivities is problematic.

I think that loser pastor that protests military funerals should be restricted religious expression based on other's sensitivities also.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i guarantee that any violence by muslim terrorists in a sufi mosque is more likely directed at sufi's than any non-muslim.

nine years in i doubt more than one in ten americans can actually tell you the difference between a sunni and a shiite, much less anything subtler. most would think hezbollah is interchangeable with hamas.

we keep trying to fight dumb with dumber.

oh me, me, me!! I can!! *raises hand*

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

lol


yeah, ok scuds. i didn't say i wanted to be a muslim, just like i no longer consider myself catholic. however, you're completely ignoring the fact that one, thankfully small, group of muslims is intent on killing anyone without their ultra-whacko view, including a sizable group of muslims who disagree with them. but all muslims are the same? if they're all the same exact bunch, why aren't they all running around killing everyone else? why are many of them a target by other muslims? why are some muslim countries far more 'westernized' than others?

this is so wrong. if it was thankfully small, we wouldnt be bothered by it.

it is a thankfully small percentage, huge #'s. 10% of a billion is 100,000,000

That is the size of 1/3 of the USA population. Is it still thankfully small?

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

oh me, me, me!! I can!! *raises hand*

Let me pull some statistics out of my as.s

9 out of 10 muslims think hi i'm god is an infidel.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Let me pull some statistics out of my as.s

9 out of 10 muslims think hi i'm god is an infidel.

he should become hi_i'm_mo and see how much the muslims like it.

Funny that us terrible Americans cant draw a picture of Mohammad without having our lives threatened.. but how dare us be sensitive towards a mosque right next to ground zero.

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

he should become hi_i'm_mo and see how much the muslims like it.

Funny that us terrible Americans cant draw a picture of Mohammad without having our lives threatened.. but how dare us be sensitive towards a mosque right next to ground zero.

You're full of shiite.

Oh if most Americans were enlightened as me.

*smells own fart*