Whale's past post sets off alarm

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Swale84

Not that i'm doubting Mike Maloney's claim to be a whale, but isn't there a big difference between betting $6 million or $12 million a year? Seems like a big range to me

small numbers to a player like Hooves..

[Payson Dave]

It would be nice to know how often that it does happen...the appearance of more impropriety does not help the game.

[ninetoone]

I've decided that I'm OK with it, as long as people are only allowed to wager late on a losing horse.

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

I've decided that I'm OK with it, as long as people are only allowed to wager late on a losing horse.

Well it would also be ok if I (and only I) could get my bet in right up until they get to the sixteenth pole...

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

Well it would also be ok if I (and only I) could get my bet in right up until they get to the sixteenth pole...

I still would have lost the BC Sprint this year...

[Rudeboyelvis]

We're talking about a few tickets entered a couple moments after the break - It's not like the guy watched the break, then figured out which horses he wanted and then started placing wagers - The bets were placed. In the grand scheme, really seems to me to be a non issue... Time to put away the tin foil hats - no conspiriacy here

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

We're talking about a few tickets entered a couple moments after the break

He is claiming that they were a half mile into the race and he was still getting his tickets punched....give me that opportunity and I gotta believe that my win percentage would go up.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah but he bet a loser giving those who bet the winner more money.

this time

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

small numbers to a player like Hooves..

if i had YOUR money id set mine on fire.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

if i had YOUR money id set mine on fire.....

my money is fire proof....all coins

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If virtually no one knows when this happens, then we have a "push" here: maybe it happens more frequently than the "isolated" incidents about which we hear.

And if it does then it may be an bigger issue than I am giving it credit for

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

He is claiming that they were a half mile into the race and he was still getting his tickets punched....give me that opportunity and I gotta believe that my win percentage would go up.

Ooops...I read this part:

>>>Lenny Vangilder, a spokesman for Fair Grounds, confirmed that wagering was not stopped when the race began. He said that the stop wagering mechanism the stewards use malfunctioned, and that the mutual manager stopped wagering 15 seconds after the race began.<<<


And glanced over this part:

>>>Maloney said that he wagered well after that, saying that he was placing wagering at least a half-mile into the 1 1/16-mile race<<<

And he still couldn't pick a winner

Seriously, You'd think it would be easy enough to figure out how often the system *hiccups*...

[ALostTexan]

I heard his talk today, and he seemed to be using this as just an example. He also made the bets on the horse that he had already bet on, as to not gain an advantage.

Maloney has an overall concern about the security of the betting pools, and as just using this as an example, not an isolated event. He made alot of sense today...

[Bobby Fischer]

I have witnessed a machine error before at an OTB. It allowed a certain exotic wager for a couple dollars less than it should have. Was a repeatable error and unique only to that machine and not the others.
I was very busy at the time, and I didn't exploit it or report it.
I wonder if months later that machine still does it?

[blackthroatedwind]

Mike Maloney is not just one of the biggest bettors in the country, he is also one of the sharpest horseplayers alive, and an extremely bright and well-spoken advocate of bettor's rights. To make light of this is a mistake. None of us knows as much as he knows about this situation and I for one listen to anything he has to say and take it all seriously.

The bottom line is that the necessary dollars have not been spent to update our tote system and even one situation like this is too many for me. Laugh and joke all you want but if you put your money through the windows you should be taking this very seriously......and expecting that all racing organizations are acting in kind.

[hi_im_god]

i think layering on the idea that a system is vulnerable to insider manipulation to a sport that already requires complicated puzzle solving skills is a problem.

whether that's real or just an inaccurate perception doesn't matter. no one wants to think they may get cheated.

you're too close to the issue cannon. it doesn't matter if it's real. the perception that the industry shrugs it shoulder's and says "no big deal" will effect handle a lot more in the long term than eliminating the bad perception late odd shifts and the occasional accident like this cause.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's nonsense Chuck. It shouldn't be able to ever happen. And, the likelihood that if it happened this time that it doesn't happen other times is zero. Plus, perception is that it does happen, and that matters a great deal.

If they need to close the pools when the first horse is loaded then they should. People will learn to adjust. Any situation where the machines are open after the start is completely unacceptable.

If this was the stock market, they'd be in fear of class action lawsuits when this kind of thing happend. Which would deter it. Please I'm hardly a fan of lawyers and lawsuits but they do deter stuff like this from happening. Unfortunately in parimutual racing, the victims are too splintered and most couldn't provide proof (losing tix) that they were injured.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

If I were a trainer, whose livelihood depends upon the handle that drives purses, there is no way I'd type "Get over it" on this issue.

At the end of the day, I agree with you that this is a rare instance, but "Get over it" was bad form.

I did not know that my opinions needed to be qualified any differently because my "livelihood depends on" the issue. I would venture that this has been occuring for as long as machines were used to take wagers. Probably less now than ever.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i think layering on the idea that a system is vulnerable to insider manipulation to a sport that already requires complicated puzzle solving skills is a problem.

whether that's real or just an inaccurate perception doesn't matter. no one wants to think they may get cheated.

you're too close to the issue cannon. it doesn't matter if it's real. the perception that the industry shrugs it shoulder's and says "no big deal" will effect handle a lot more in the long term than eliminating the bad perception late odd shifts and the occasional accident like this cause.

If what you say is true, can you say with any degree of certainty or with verifiable evidence that the Breeders Cup scandal which is much worse than this has negatively effected handle in any manner? I agree that the security of the pools is a huge issue but this example seems to be an isolated case. If not why hasn't it been brought up pubically before? Or has it?

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If what you say is true, can you say with any degree of certainty or with verifiable evidence that the Breeders Cup scandal which is much worse than this has negatively effected handle in any manner? I agree that the security of the pools is a huge issue but this example seems to be an isolated case. If not why hasn't it been brought up pubically before? Or has it?

Game set match goes to the blogger from Ky.....

BC scandal probably actually drove handle up!!!!

Any publicity is good publicity!!

This in the words of Mr "Shakes"......"Is much ado about nothing"