Set the easily-swayed straight about Racing

[Riot]

Originally Posted by sumitas

I'm more interested in any initiatives now to make horse racing safer.

LOL, I rest my case.

There are indeed some initiatives "now" - can you name those?

In other words, do you know anything at all about what has been done in the past, or what is being done now, within the sport of horseracing to make it safer?

LOL, I rest my case.

[sumitas]

More needs to be done. And much faster.

[ateamstupid]

The last 10 posts in this thread made my head hurt.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The last 10 posts in this thread made my head hurt.

Like it wasn't already...

[Riot]

Caring about the welfare of the racehorse hasn't been the black void that PETA and other detractors say it is.

How about a list of industry-driven initiatives, things that have been done for racehorses, to make their racing careers, and post-career lives, better. Here's three to start:

Ongoing reconfigurations of inner track rail: wood (splinters, dangerous) replaced by plastic/metal: vertical support posts replaced by slanted posts (less chance of horses striking them), narrow top rail replaced by wider safety top rail. Horses no longer spike themselves to death on inner track rail.

The Welfare and Safety of the Racehorse Summit (initiated October 2006)

The initiation of serious drug testing in the 1980's

[AeWingnut]

What can you tell people that don't follow horseracing?

I tell them about Eight Belles incredible will to win. That the jockey gave her a good trip.

I tell them that the connections of Eight Belles absolutely loved her. Like Barbaro, they would give anything to save her.

Bettors like me would rather lose than have anyone get hurt.

PETA is no better than the people that protest at fallen soldiers' funerals. Except PETA is only in it for the money. They look at tragedy as an oppurtunity to cash in.

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Okay, I'll bite. Why is it ridiculous?

I'm not saying it's a good idea. But I don't see it as ridiculous. Is there a valid reason we need horses being whipped for the game to be interesting?

--Dunbar

Whips are needed to help control the animal. Some horses need whipped to help them hit different gears and switch leads. I can only imagine the number of champions who wouldn't be if whips were banned from racing. The number of horses veering out and in would also increase.

Hell I'll even go as far to say catastrophic injuries would increase if you take away the whip.

It's a horrible idea and was a completely lazy excuse from Moss. The whip had nothing to do with what happened to Eight Belles.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Okay, I'll bite. Why is it ridiculous?

I'm not saying it's a good idea. But I don't see it as ridiculous. Is there a valid reason we need horses being whipped for the game to be interesting?

--Dunbar

Less take it from the handicapping perspective:

Anyone who watches races closely knows that MORE races are BLOWN by excessive use of the whip than any benefit that might come as a result of it.
Am I the only one tired of seeing horses DUCK/DRIFT IN upon entering the stretch under RIGHTY whipping? Or, how many times has a horse drifted out or in significantly because of overuse of the whip in the lane? How many photos have I lost because of this ****?

Taking the whip out of plays makes the jocks focus on RIDING; gives them one less things to to. And, believe me, the LESS they have to do, the better.

The most important thing on a FAIR track is having a clear/straight path to the wire. I don't see how a whip comes into play here, other than working against this.

Whip and CASTRATION need to go the way of the good-ole-boy mentality (that still seems to be pervasive in racing) ---the way to EXTINCTION.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Whips are needed to help control the animal. Some horses need whipped to help them hit different gears and switch leads. I can only imagine the number of champions who wouldn't be if whips were banned from racing. The number of horses veering out and in would also increase.

Hell I'll even go as far to say catastrophic injuries would increase if you take away the whip.

It's a horrible idea and was a completely lazy excuse from Moss. The whip had nothing to do with what happened to Eight Belles.

Best.PantsPost.Evah.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Whips are needed to help control the animal. Some horses need whipped to help them hit different gears and switch leads. I can only imagine the number of champions who wouldn't be if whips were banned from racing. The number of horses veering out and in would also increase.

Hell I'll even go as far to say catastrophic injuries would increase if you take away the whip.

It's a horrible idea and was a completely lazy excuse from Moss. The whip had nothing to do with what happened to Eight Belles.

I'm not that worried about the champions who wouldn't be champions if whips were barred. Other horses who respond to hand or voice or just run on sheer competitive will would have become champions in their place. If we allow all drugs, we'd probably have a lot of different and maybe faster champions, too. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I'm also skeptical about the necessity of the whip for steering the horse. Would you care to give an estimate on what percentage of the time the whip is used to steer the horse vs what percentage of time it is used to try to make a horse go faster? And how often has the whip been blamed for causing a horse to veer out of it's path? Possibly often enough to offset the number of times it is used to correct a path problem.

Even for the horses that have become dependent on the whip to change gears or switch leads--isn't that often a result of the training? Don't you think horses could be trained to switch leads by getting a message direct from the rider's hands?

I'm writing as a rank amateur in this area. But it seems obvious to me that 90%+ of whipping is done to make horses run faster, and it's not at all obvious to me why inflicting pain has become an integral part of the game.

--Dunbar

[philcski]

Originally Posted by sumitas

This is a circle the wagons thread. Kinda reminds me of that cult down in Texas.

I am thankful for the Californias and Keenelands of this world and even PETA and ESPN to bring long long needed improvements to this sport.

The issue is Eight Belles and the KD and horse racing in general. The issue is not PETA.

You say more reasonable things at 2:30 in the morning (Miller Time) than this. Stop. Now.

Originally Posted by Kasept

Best.PantsPost.Evah.

I laughed

[horseofcourse]

Ask Steve Cauthen if he wins a triple crown without a whip.

I guess overall it would have been safer for Eight Belles to continually crash through rails. Jones has explained it. I'm not sure what Randy Moss is going with here.

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Whips are needed to help control the animal. Some horses need whipped to help them hit different gears and switch leads. I can only imagine the number of champions who wouldn't be if whips were banned from racing. The number of horses veering out and in would also increase.

Hell I'll even go as far to say catastrophic injuries would increase if you take away the whip.

It's a horrible idea and was a completely lazy excuse from Moss. The whip had nothing to do with what happened to Eight Belles.

Very excellent post, you should get pie.
I was thinking exactly the same thing last nite and I'm glad you posted it, especially the part about Randy Moss. I do like him and I just don't get where he is going with that.

IMO most against the whip have never trained an animal in their life. The slap of a whip on most 1000 lb. animals is not what some of you seem to think.
Whips are not solely used to make a horse go faster although it may appear that way, often times it is to focus the horse, or as pants said to stop a catastrophic event of a horse changing lanes.
Some horses don't need it like Samba Rooster. And has been mentioned there is the rule of excessive whipping the stewards may use and have used.
I have absolutely no problem with the use of the whip when used properly.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Ask Steve Cauthen if he wins a triple crown without a whip.

How about I ask him, instead, if he wins the triple crown without pace-favoring perfect trips? Or, maybe, if he wins if Alydar changes leads?

[Riot]

More terrible things the heartless horse racing industry has done to promote the safety of horses on the track over the years:

Elimination of excessively high toe grabs; what shoes are allowed on what surface

Presence of outriders in the morning and afternoon

Padded bricks as paddock and horse walkway footing

Second overgirth

Gate cards

Safety padding and alteration to construction of starting gates

Artificial racing surfaces - improved maintenance of all track surfaces

Greyson-Jockey Club Research Foundation

NTRA Charities Barbaro Memorial Fund

National equine drug testing laboratory standards and uniform protocol

Ambulances and veterinarians on-track for horses

Elimination/control over what drugs can be given as raceday medications

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

How about I ask him, instead, if he wins the triple crown without pace-favoring perfect trips? Or, maybe, if he wins if Alydar changes leads?

Yes you're correct on those points...he has nonetheless stated in every interview he has done on the race crediting the win to the only time he ever hit Affirmed left handed as what gave him the ultimate edge in that Belmont.

[2MinsToPost]

I am going to para-phrase my response at lunch today to several co-workers who were discussing it at the table I was sitting. Looking back I am quite proud of it (patting myself on the back lol).

Eight Belles is the exception to the rule. I invite you to sit at the track, any track for several days in a row and watch every race. Bet you a paycheck you will not see a horse euthanized. I then went on with this rant...........
Most of you know I love the track and have been a regular at Beulah, Scioto, Turfway and River for well over 5 years now. I have only seen 1 horse euthanized on track. These athletes exert incredible amounts of strength thru their legs down to their ankles. Just like your proffesional ball players. Hey, they get hurt too don't they? The difference is obvious comparing pro ball players to t-breds.

A couple of them seemed to understand the comparison.

[TheSpyder]

I think the biggest problem is the weight of the jockeys. I think they should be replaced with all the anorexic models that are now out of work and take the weight down to 86 pounds

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

I think the biggest problem is the weight of the jockeys. I think they should be replaced with all the anorexic models that are now out of work and take the weight down to 86 pounds

That's absolutely EXTRAORDINARY: how in the world did you ever find a (picture of) a woman WITHOUT a tit job?

[2MinsToPost]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

That's absolutely EXTRAORDINARY: how in the world did you ever find a (picture of) a woman WITHOUT a tit job?

She needs a Big Mac with fries BAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD