What is Racing's Biggest Current Hurdle? - Page 2

cmorioles · #21 12-23-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickhorse

We need to draw more fans to this great game.

The ITW that I attend in Cali has fewer patrons every year. Those in attendance average at least 55 years old.

The game doesn't need fans. The game needs gamblers.

the_fat_man · #22 12-23-2009, 01:23 PM

No doubt the game needs an influx of need blood. And, the best way to attract new players is to follow the model of POKER. Check out all the new players that POKER drew by providing special treatment for all their HIGH ROLLERS. I mean, in the World Series of Poker, for example, all HIGH ROLLERS get a 10% rebate on their stack. So, all the HIGH ROLLERS (including the BEST PLAYERS) aren't really winning on their own (for the most part).

Yeah.

What racing really needs to do is show all the gamblers out there looking for a new game that ALL PLAYERS are treated EVENLY. And, that having a NEGATIVE ROI means that you LOSE MONEY.

If they can't attract players to the game using this model, then maybe they need the game to be a bit SIMPLER. Keeping the game difficult for some while making it simpler for others is not exactly the way to go about making it an attractive proposition.

I bet a lot of money, so I need an unfair advantage. This might work when it comes to dealing with banks, for example, but, in situations where there's a choice, it's not happening.

Gander · #23 12-23-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The game doesn't need fans. The game needs gamblers.

I dont think you have much to worry about. How is this game going to attract new fans when the few stars we do have run 4-5 race campaigns and take 7 months off between starts. From tomorrow's DRF....

Fabulous Strike is getting a break on a farm in Ocala, Fla., and will be pointed to a limited 7-year-old campaign in 2010 that his connections hope ends with a start in the Breeders' Cup Sprint at Churchill Downs in November.

A multiple stakes winner, Fabulous Strike has not raced since getting run down by Kodiak Kowboy in the Grade 1 Vosburgh in the slop at Belmont in early October.

A much deserved break after running all of what, 5 times in 2009?

johnny pinwheel · #24 12-23-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

#1 Idiots in charge of tracks, BC, etc making one bad decision after another, for years now.

It's like they are hell bent on destroying the industry.

i agree with the indian and some of the other posts which point out the crummy decisions. Poly in Cali where its hot, there is no "weather"...stupid,stupid,stupid. poly at keenland, those are what i call lost causes right there. i rarely bet that crap! the horses have to "avoid" each other because of specialized tracks. whose going to send a horse to run in a big race on poly when you know you have no shot? after two years of breeders cups there(which is another joke of a decision) the connections for dirt horses know its a farce. charging for parking, admission and all the other crap when casinos are giving things away and you walk in the joint free! turning gulfstream park into some kind of racino/mall.....brilliant. i could go on and on and on and on.........

Kasept · #25 12-23-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I dont think you have much to worry about. How is this game going to attract new fans when the few stars we do have run 4-5 race campaigns and take 7 months off between starts. From tomorrow's DRF....

Fabulous Strike is getting a break on a farm in Ocala, Fla., and will be pointed to a limited 7-year-old campaign in 2010 that his connections hope ends with a start in the Breeders' Cup Sprint at Churchill Downs in November.

A multiple stakes winner, Fabulous Strike has not raced since getting run down by Kodiak Kowboy in the Grade 1 Vosburgh in the slop at Belmont in early October.

A much deserved break after running all of what, 5 times in 2009?

The 'sticking around' schtick makes for a nice argument, but it's a canard in this conversation. Stars may matter to 'fans', but they don't matter to gamblers. CJ has always been right on this subject, and was banging that drum before anyone. People who will make the difference at the windows contributing to handle in a meaningful way couldn't care less how long some high profile horse is around... (unless they are a money-burning favorite type of course).

Separately, why in the world would Fabulous Strike draw ire? All he does is show up every time out. Horses that run really fast are the most likely to get hurt and most likely to need time between starts. Todd Beattie has handled Fabulous Strike brilliantly, and his scheduling has ALLOWED him to make the starts he has and still have a horse going into his 7yo season.

freddymo · #26 12-23-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I dont think you have much to worry about. How is this game going to attract new fans when the few stars we do have run 4-5 race campaigns and take 7 months off between starts. From tomorrow's DRF....

Fabulous Strike is getting a break on a farm in Ocala, Fla., and will be pointed to a limited 7-year-old campaign in 2010 that his connections hope ends with a start in the Breeders' Cup Sprint at Churchill Downs in November.

A multiple stakes winner, Fabulous Strike has not raced since getting run down by Kodiak Kowboy in the Grade 1 Vosburgh in the slop at Belmont in early October.

A much deserved break after running all of what, 5 times in 2009?

How many G1 horses campaign every 4 weeks?

Gander · #27 12-23-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

How many G1 horses campaign every 4 weeks?

If you are asking how many Grade 1 horses run 12 times a year, the answer is very few (if any), none of which I can name. But 4-5 race campaigns is to be the norm? Summer Bird ran more. So too did Gio Ponti.

I guess running 9-10 times a year is too demanding given the new medications most horses run on.

Sightseek · #28 12-23-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The 'sticking around' schtick makes for a nice argument, but it's a canard in this conversation. Stars may matter to 'fans', but they don't matter to gamblers. CJ has always been right on this subject, and was banging that drum before anyone. People who will make the difference at the windows contributing to handle in a meaningful way couldn't care less how long some high profile horse is around... (unless they are a money-burning favorite type of course).

Separately, why in the world would Fabulous Strike draw ire? All he does is show up every time out. Horses that run really fast are the most likely to get hurt and most likely to need time between starts. Todd Beattie has handled Fabulous Strike brilliantly, and his scheduling has ALLOWED him to make the starts he has and still have a horse going into his 7yo season.

Well it does kind of effect everyone overall when the lack of stars are responsible for not filling Stakes races and what should be a huge day for a track isn't.

Gander · #29 12-23-2009, 02:04 PM

I like both: Betting on cheap races and watching races where Fabulous Strike wins at 3/5 type odds, a la the Vanderbilt and True North. Guess I will have to wait until April to see Fabulous Strike again.

Any guesses on his return race? The Carter?

Kasept · #30 12-23-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Well it does kind of effect everyone overall when the lack of stars are responsible for not filling Stakes races and what should be a huge day for a track isn't.

So 6-8 sophomores per year that may retire arguably early are responsible for stakes not filling to the brim? I don't buy that. While an overall lack of 'good' horses contributes to the problem, Stakes races with narrow fields are due to the inane overabundance of opportunities. There's too many stakes for the amount of horses. Cut down the stakes and boost the purses and you'll see what happens.

Duvalier · #31 12-23-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I like both: Betting on cheap races and watching races where Fabulous Strike wins at 3/5 type odds, a la the Vanderbilt and True North. Guess I will have to wait until April to see Fabulous Strike again.

Any guesses on his return race? The Carter?

According to Dave Grening's article in DRF a start in April or May is possible...but it didn't mention a specific race.

Riot · #32 12-23-2009, 02:13 PM

As important as gamblers are to horse racing, it's a pretty expensive and inefficient way to provide that entertainment or livelihood.

Providing a gambling outlet is not why breeders, owners, trainers, track workers form a whole industry around, and dedicate their lives, to a live animal.

Sightseek · #33 12-23-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

So 6-8 sophomores per year that may retire arguably early are responsible for stakes not filling to the brim? I don't buy that. While an overall lack of 'good' horses contributes to the problem, Stakes races with narrow fields are due to the inane overabundance of opportunities. There's too many stakes for the amount of horses. Cut down the stakes and boost the purses and you'll see what happens.

I agree with you about there being too many opportunities.

Kasept · #34 12-23-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvalier

According to Dave Grening's article in DRF a start in April or May is the target...but it didn't mention a specific race.

Work backwards...

BC Sprint at Churchill (Nov)...

Vosburgh (Oct)

Vanderbilt (Aug)

True North (June)

Churchill Downs H. (May, but don't know if you want to go 7f first start back)

Gander · #35 12-23-2009, 02:20 PM

Steve, has Fabulous Strike ever run at Churchill? Why not the Carter?

Duvalier · #36 12-23-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Work backwards...

BC Sprint at Churchill (Nov)...

Vosburgh (Oct)

Vanderbilt (Aug)

True North (June)

Churchill Downs H. (May, but don't know if you want to go 7f first start back)

Interesting...thanks. The Aristides at Churchill in June was mentioned as a possibility for one of his starts also. The horse really has been well handled by Beattie throughout his career...props to him.

The Indomitable DrugS · #37 12-23-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

has Fabulous Strike ever run at Churchill?

Yes

Sightseek · #38 12-23-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

So 6-8 sophomores per year that may retire arguably early are responsible for stakes not filling to the brim? I don't buy that. While an overall lack of 'good' horses contributes to the problem, Stakes races with narrow fields are due to the inane overabundance of opportunities. There's too many stakes for the amount of horses. Cut down the stakes and boost the purses and you'll see what happens.

Question though - who do you let fail and who makes changes to their Stakes schedule and or cuts live racing days? I know everyone says that this needs to be done, yet simultaneously they are signing petitions to save xyz track and talking about how slots need to be approved etc.

First and foremost, the continuing decline of handle needs to be addressed, but once you really delve into the topic there are so many smaller factors that affect this and need fixing too.

#39 12-23-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The 'sticking around' schtick makes for a nice argument, but it's a canard in this conversation. Stars may matter to 'fans', but they don't matter to gamblers. CJ has always been right on this subject, and was banging that drum before anyone. People who will make the difference at the windows contributing to handle in a meaningful way couldn't care less how long some high profile horse is around... (unless they are a money-burning favorite type of course).

Separately, why in the world would Fabulous Strike draw ire? All he does is show up every time out. Horses that run really fast are the most likely to get hurt and most likely to need time between starts. Todd Beattie has handled Fabulous Strike brilliantly, and his scheduling has ALLOWED him to make the starts he has and still have a horse going into his 7yo season.

You need to add "fans" in order to have a shot at turning them into "gamblers."

It's difficult to do that when the top horses run 4-6 times a year.

randallscott35 · #40 12-23-2009, 02:40 PM

You need to turn gamblers into fans. Horse racing needs to lower the takeout. It is not a non-starter. It needs to be done across the board.