Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Gate Dancer

Loved the off spring of Pirates Bounty................here's a nice article after he passed away.............

http://archive.ctba.com/06magazine/o...mPirteBnty.pdf

Thanks too.

I loved betting Pirates Bounty FTSs.

Too bad he never got any really high quality mares bred to him.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

All this is true. But it's also true what Randall was trying to get at. A non-gelded horse as good as Wise Dan most likely would have been off to the breeding shed after last year's BC.

--Dunbar

Yep those son's of Wiseman's Ferry are all the rage... In Pa. they call him AP Indy Lite

[Indian Charlie]

What would Wise Dan, all other things being equal, stand for if he was not gelded?

15k?

25K?

50 even?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What would Wise Dan, all other things being equal, stand for if he was not gelded?

15k?

25K?

50 even?

No such thing as a 6 or 7 year old that goes to stud at anything above 10k...Why? because nobody could risk a DIRT horse devaluing himself by continuing to race as a 6/7 years old. Point of Entry only ran this year because he was grass meant, in very sporting wealthy hands, and while he and Gio Pionti might become ok dirt producers its unlikely either would have been campaigned at 5 if they were dirt types. For all I know they can because Tapit and War Front(who thought those two would be special)

Who the heck is paying 50k for a unproven out of the box Wiseman's Ferry that was a 8f grass horse? You think Wise Dan would be better received then a Tiznow? That is the only sort of comparable stud I could relate a whole Wise Dan too and that comparison is a huge theoretical stretch.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What would Wise Dan, all other things being equal, stand for if he was not gelded?

15k?

25K?

50 even?

by wiseman's ferry? he'd be lucky to get 10k. he'd also be lucky to stand in ky. i think for comparison, you could look at einstein. 7500, and a winner on all three surfaces.

[randallscott35]

Triple Crown- they are all racing soooo long.

Orb- Retired, all of 2 starts after the Triple Crown series, supposedly healthy so why retire?
Oxbow- Injured, though could've come back given enough time, so why retire?
Palice Malice- Will be back, yay, for a 4 yr old season where he surely runs holes in the wind at FG and GP and Xs at the Breeders Cup like every other Pletcher horse that can't get their fix.

If all goes well we can look forward to Golden Soul hitting the board in a NX3 race at some point in 2014. Fingers crossed. I'll keep rooting for my happy geldings long into the future.

[Jasper131]

Golden Soul in an n3X? How bout getting to an n2x? Isn't he 1 for something?

Re Shared Belief - the only thing is the pace of that race was very slow especially for the final time. The 7f races at Hollywood that are run in 122.5 or whatever usually have paces in the low-to-mid 45s so he was aided by that but even if he ran a faster half and finished in 123 and got a 92 or 94 Beyer, that's still a big performance.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Jasper131

Golden Soul in an n3X? How bout getting to an n2x? Isn't he 1 for something?

Re Shared Belief - the only thing is the pace of that race was very slow especially for the final time. The 7f races at Hollywood that are run in 122.5 or whatever usually have paces in the low-to-mid 45s so he was aided by that but even if he ran a faster half and finished in 123 and got a 92 or 94 Beyer, that's still a big performance.

I was a lot more impressed with they Kobe Byrant horse for the very reasons you stated.

It could be a interesting Cash Call Futurity this year because the 2YO championship in not exactly settled.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Reaching for Hollendorfer today and will get answers..

Anything?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Anything?

Yes.. Dorf was on yesterday: http://www.thoroughbredracingradione...y=13&Itemid=35

[Indian Charlie]

Thanks.

Listening to Dorf speak is kind of funny.

Conservative in what he says, and sounds like he's straight out of the 1950s.

As for the horse, I'm guessing they really didn't think too much of him until he ran.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Thanks.

Listening to Dorf speak is kind of funny.

Conservative in what he says, and sounds like he's straight out of the 1950s.

As for the horse, I'm guessing they really didn't think too much of him until he ran.

I think the point of the sale was Wygod doesnt race geldings. Not if they liked the horse

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I think the point of the sale was Wygod doesnt race geldings. Not if they liked the horse

well, if they don't want to race geldings, why would they geld a horse they own? that seems....odd.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, if they don't want to race geldings, why would they geld a horse they own? that seems....odd.

Often the farm calls and tells you that a colt is unmanageable. They are jumping fences to get at fillies.. becoming dangerous to handle.. etc.. Leaves no choice.

[Indian Charlie]

Yes, but how often do horses that are thought to be extremely talented and have very nice pedigrees actually get gelded?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yes, but how often do horses that are thought to be extremely talented and have very nice pedigrees actually get gelded?

probably more than you'd think. they can't live up to their talent if they won't keep their mind on their work.
would kelso and forgo have been kelso and forgo if they weren't gelded? their trainers said probably not.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Often the farm calls and tells you that a colt is unmanageable. They are jumping fences to get at fillies.. becoming dangerous to handle.. etc.. Leaves no choice.

yeah, i get why it's done.
i guess i just don't understand why they'd have an issue racing a gelding. at least they get more of a chance to show what they can do.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

probably more than you'd think. they can't live up to their talent if they won't keep their mind on their work.
would kelso and forgo have been kelso and forgo if they weren't gelded? their trainers said probably not.

Really? I almost never ever see that.

Remember, not only does the horse have to be well pedigreed, but also he has to be highly thought of.

I can't remember the last top class well bred gelding, other than maybe a horse like commentator, who was sired by an unknown sire (at the time, DH was not highly thought of).

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Really? I almost never ever see that.

Remember, not only does the horse have to be well pedigreed, but also he has to be highly thought of.

I can't remember the last top class well bred gelding, other than maybe a horse like commentator, who was sired by an unknown sire (at the time, DH was not highly thought of).

i think that these days people hesitate to geld, and they are doing wrong, because everyone thinks they have the next seattle slew. many intact horses won't reach their potential because they won't put their mind to racing--and why would you want to breed untractable horses?
but i've seen well bred geldings in racing forms, and we've seen horses tail off and they geld to see if it will fix them.