Idol top 12...my thoughts

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by onebadbeast

This Is One Of The Worst Groups Of American Idols Ever! You Could See Any Of Them In Your Local Karaoke Bar. I Think The Background Singer Melinda Will Win It And She Is The Favorite On Many Betting Sites. And I Cant Stand The Chris Dude Who Is A Tmberlake Copycat. I Can't Imagine Who Would Buy Records By These People. There 15 Minutes Is Definitely Up!

What's with the caps? Sorta adds credibility to my concept of attention seeking behavior....

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Haley...I was ready to put her with Sanjaya until her performance last night...she forgot the words and that caused her to have some pitch issues but overall she was really pretty good...Simon nailed it, she has the "IT" factor, something about her last night made me sit up and notice...and that a week after Simon ridiculed her saying he didn't even know her name...something changed last night and he saw it...she could be voted off tonight but if not, she has something now to build on and could really be the dark horse...not saying she can win but certainly she is already better than any of the boys and Stephanie and Gina are catchable so that would mean only the top three seem out of her reach.

I felt really out of touch with the judges last night, when I usually agree with them.

I still didn't like Haley very much and was surprised at how much Simon liked her (though if you watched it again, you'd notice that he wasn't quite as nice as it comes off. Most of it was very backhanded. He essentially said she was "not that awful" when it all got translated, but that she had a "presence."). I knew watching it that Gina's performance wouldn't get people really hot over it, but I can't explain it, but I thought it was incredible. That, and I thought Stephanie was the best last night. Who knew that someone I thought was very bland before tonight would grab my top spot?!

<3 Jordin.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I felt really out of touch with the judges last night, when I usually agree with them.

I still didn't like Haley very much and was surprised at how much Simon liked her (though if you watched it again, you'd notice that he wasn't quite as nice as it comes off. Most of it was very backhanded. He essentially said she was "not that awful" when it all got translated, but that she had a "presence."). I knew watching it that Gina's performance wouldn't get people really hot over it, but I can't explain it, but I thought it was incredible. That, and I thought Stephanie was the best last night. Who knew that someone I thought was very bland before tonight would grab my top spot?!

<3 Jordin.

Yeah, I think the fact that you and I saw different things last night underscores my point that this isn't nearly as bad a group as some people pretend. Stephanie left out the disco part of a disco song...I don't understand that. She has an excellent voice but she just left me empty last night...no doubt the girl can sing though! Gina is Gina...I like her and she belongs but I think she's limited. I don't know...I was really down on Haley and last night changed that for me...she has something that came out for the first time, we'll see if she can keep it...and remember the words!

[brianwspencer]

Well, that or it's more like a 10K seller at Hawthorne in January -- the only ones who are bunched closely are the three favorites, and the rest of the stragglers are fighting it out for a 4th place check.

That's more how I view it.

[ArlJim78]

I wasn't paying real close attention last night, but one thing about the judges bothered me. Its like they aren't consistent in their advice.
Example;
How many times have you heard them say "that sounded ordinary", "like a karoake version", "you didn't make it your own", "it wasn't original", etc.

But then other times they slam people who try to make an original arrangement like Chris S did last night. They were like "oh we were expecting it to sound like Diana's version, this was so different". But isn't that what being original is, being different? I gave him some credit for his version of that song, actually. To me it was original and was not bad.

Just my observtion that they seem to give conflicting advice on this sometimes.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I wasn't paying real close attention last night, but one thing about the judges bothered me. Its like they aren't consistent in their advice.
Example;
How many times have you heard them say "that sounded ordinary", "like a karoake version", "you didn't make it your own", "it wasn't original", etc.

But then other times they slam people who try to make an original arrangement like Chris S did last night. They were like "oh we were expecting it to sound like Diana's version, this was so different". But isn't that what being original is, being different? I gave him some credit for his version of that song, actually. To me it was original and was not bad.

Just my observtion that they seem to give conflicting advice on this sometimes.

Well, I know it sounds like that but there is a big difference between good and different...what the judges are looking for is something that sets a singer apart from the others, a uniqueness...but it doesn't matter how different you are if you stink! The folks last night tried different things with arrangement, tempo, key...but none were very successful. Haley was the one who came across as somewhat unique last night...hard to pinpoint exactly what it was but she had a presence on stage, it could have been the dress, the way she moved, her expressions, the way she "felt" the song...probably a bit of all those plus other factors...suddenly, she was noticed! LaKisha and Melinda already have that uniqueness, they have "it"...Jordin is close. In the end, America will select the next Idol based on that uniqueness as much as voice.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, I know it sounds like that but there is a big difference between good and different...what the judges are looking for is something that sets a singer apart from the others, a uniqueness...but it doesn't matter how different you are if you stink! The folks last night tried different things with arrangement, tempo, key...but none were very successful. Haley was the one who came across as somewhat unique last night...hard to pinpoint exactly what it was but she had a presence on stage, it could have been the dress, the way she moved, her expressions, the way she "felt" the song...probably a bit of all those plus other factors...suddenly, she was noticed! LaKisha and Melinda already have that uniqueness, they have "it"...Jordin is close. In the end, America will select the next Idol based on that uniqueness as much as voice.

Perhaps it's my age, but I loved what Blake did. I didn't love the vocal performance so much, but really enjoyed how he modernized or "blake-ized" a classic like that.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, I know it sounds like that but there is a big difference between good and different...what the judges are looking for is something that sets a singer apart from the others, a uniqueness...but it doesn't matter how different you are if you stink! The folks last night tried different things with arrangement, tempo, key...but none were very successful. Haley was the one who came across as somewhat unique last night...hard to pinpoint exactly what it was but she had a presence on stage, it could have been the dress, the way she moved, her expressions, the way she "felt" the song...probably a bit of all those plus other factors...suddenly, she was noticed! LaKisha and Melinda already have that uniqueness, they have "it"...Jordin is close. In the end, America will select the next Idol based on that uniqueness as much as voice.

No, I didn't imply that different = good. I said that i felt Chris was different and good.

You mentioned how America will select the Idol. I think uniqueness is part of it for sure, there has to be something to identify with, some kind of separator between you and the others, something that people like. It can be intangible also like you said, the way a person moves, smiles, what they wear, how they interact with Simon and the judges etc. Its these things that will separate the real finalists, who I'm sure will all be quite good singers.

Another factor from week to week that i don't know if anyone has mentioned is where a person falls in the singing order. Think of these like 12 separate acts. if you follow directly after a great act, well, its a tough act to follow as the saying goes. I think the first performer is in an inherently bad spot. The crowd isn't warmed up, the nerves are higher and I think people generally don't expect that the first performance will be the best performance so its sort of immediately downgraded by default.

by contrast, the final performance is a great position because it will be what people remember. I have noticed that Fox mixes up the order and it seems to me like they want to end with a great performance and they seem to know who has something great in store and they put them last. For example there was no way they were going to end the show last night with Sanjaya. Its basically one of the ways I think Fox can manipulate things to favor certain people, by putting them in certain slots. Like if they want a certain person off the island they can keep putting them after Melinda and they will always appear as a let-down. But the person following Sanjaya has a better set-up.

does anyone else think like this? I know one thing, I've been sitting here at work writing about american idol from 20 minutes on a horse racing forum. I may need to seek help!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

No, I didn't imply that different = good. I said that i felt Chris was different and good.

You mentioned how America will select the Idol. I think uniqueness is part of it for sure, there has to be something to identify with, some kind of separator between you and the others, something that people like. It can be intangible also like you said, the way a person moves, smiles, what they wear, how they interact with Simon and the judges etc. Its these things that will separate the real finalists, who I'm sure will all be quite good singers.

Another factor from week to week that i don't know if anyone has mentioned is where a person falls in the singing order. Think of these like 12 separate acts. if you follow directly after a great act, well, its a tough act to follow as the saying goes. I think the first performer is in an inherently bad spot. The crowd isn't warmed up, the nerves are higher and I think people generally don't expect that the first performance will be the best performance so its sort of immediately downgraded by default.

by contrast, the final performance is a great position because it will be what people remember. I have noticed that Fox mixes up the order and it seems to me like they want to end with a great performance and they seem to know who has something great in store and they put them last. For example there was no way they were going to end the show last night with Sanjaya. Its basically one of the ways I think Fox can manipulate things to favor certain people, by putting them in certain slots. Like if they want a certain person off the island they can keep putting them after Melinda and they will always appear as a let-down. But the person following Sanjaya has a better set-up.

does anyone else think like this? I know one thing, I've been sitting here at work writing about american idol from 20 minutes on a horse racing forum. I may need to seek help!

LOL! I agree that position is an issue, Brandon last night got the double whammy, had to go first and knew Melinda was following him...but his performance was still bad! Hopefully Sanjaya will be gone after tonight, I'll be really frustrated if they vote off Haley instead after she finally showed promise. In all honesty, if Sanjaya makes it through tonight there is something going on...not with Fox but with voters somewhere! He can only go so far with millions of votes cast but still..I suspect Simon and the others are kicking themselves for allowing him to get past them.

[TitanSooner]

Me thinks Chris Sligh will be gone.

Sanjaya will make it a long way.. for some reason.. maybe because voters are retarded

[brianwspencer]

Well, it wasn't Sanjaya, but with those three in the bottom I really didn't care who went home. They totally got it right tonight as far as voting for the bottom three. Haley was a close fourth I'm sure

Sanjaya's days are numbered. It was easier for him to skate by being awful against just the guys, so he'll be gone soon enough.

I honestly didn't care which of the three they sent home because I wish they would have just sent all three home at once. I don't like any of them.

Bye Brandon, we thought you were good during the auditions if it's any consolation.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well, it wasn't Sanjaya, but with those three in the bottom I really didn't care who went home. They totally got it right tonight as far as voting for the bottom three. Haley was a close fourth I'm sure

Sanjaya's days are numbered. It was easier for him to skate by being awful against just the guys, so he'll be gone soon enough.

I honestly didn't care which of the three they sent home because I wish they would have just sent all three home at once. I don't like any of them.

Bye Brandon, we thought you were good during the auditions if it's any consolation.

I just posted the same thing on another thread...I still think Sanjaya was far and away the worst...oh well, bottom three should signal a departure soon enough. Haley sounded good again tonight, her voice was distinctive from the rest some how...still think she could surprise!

[brianwspencer]

Every week she is around is still a surprise after the round of 24. So she may very well continue to "surprise" for a few more weeks.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Every week she is around is still a surprise after the round of 24. So she may very well continue to "surprise" for a few more weeks.

Well, I actually think she's better than any of the guys and, as I said before, Stephanie and Gina are within reach. I was really surprised at how Jordin looked tonight...it's amazing how folks can change so quickly on this show.