Appearance Fees

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

This scenario of appearance fees is so rare and the instances where it happened the owners were billionaires. I am sure they were saying good for Baffert, as long as the horse wins. This isn't golf, it is horse racing. Appearance fees are very rare in horse racing. A trainer isn't going to get an appearance fee unless the horse is a superstar. People don't come out to see horses unless they are Smarty Jones types, and those types earn the owners plenty. Most owners probably prefer to let the trainers take appearance fees than give out seasons.

Now you are saying they allow the trainers to get the appearance fee instead of giving them shares ( or a share ) in a stallion prospect? That would be an entirely different thing....right? In that case they, the owners that is, would be getting the appearance or at least in trade.

I agree, they are rare, but my guess is owners AT LEAST want to know if the trainer is getting an appearance fee ( once again, this is where Baffert got himself in trouble ) and my guess is they want some, if not all, of it.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Now you are saying they allow the trainers to get the appearance fee instead of giving them shares ( or a share ) in a stallion prospect? That would be an entirely different thing....right? In that case they, the owners that is, would be getting the appearance or at least in trade.

I agree, they are rare, but my guess is owners AT LEAST want to know if the trainer is getting an appearance fee ( once again, this is where Baffert got himself in trouble ) and my guess is they want some, if not all, of it.

The only horses that are capable of getting an appearance fee for an owner are Classic winners. Maybe a horse like Cigar. Nobody else. Tracks provide them to bring in people. The owner might want to know but why would they care. No trainer is going to put an elite horse into a race simply for an appearance fee. In fact, I can't recall more than a few appearance fees, and only know of one for sure and that was Baffert.

Just curious, are these trainers getting shares or a couple seasons? I always thought a couple seasons. A share in some of these, like an Empire Maker would be worth millions to Frankel.

[blackthroatedwind]

They get shares ( 1 to 2 is my understanding ) in most cases.

Others here would know better than me however.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

They get shares ( 1 to 2 is my understanding ) in most cases.

Others here would know better than me however.

It is my understanding that it depends on the horse and the deal made with the owner. A friend in the business said this is sometimes a very sticky situation.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

The only horses that are capable of getting an appearance fee for an owner are Classic winners. Maybe a horse like Cigar. Nobody else. Tracks provide them to bring in people. The owner might want to know but why would they care. No trainer is going to put an elite horse into a race simply for an appearance fee. In fact, I can't recall more than a few appearance fees, and only know of one for sure and that was Baffert.

Just curious, are these trainers getting shares or a couple seasons? I always thought a couple seasons. A share in some of these, like an Empire Maker would be worth millions to Frankel.

Usually shares. I wonder if the Storm Cat trainer got one. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by boldruler

Usually shares. I wonder if the Storm Cat trainer got one. Imagine that.

jonathan shepard did according to most people.

Originally Posted by oracle80

jonathan shepard did according to most people.

Wow. That is a nice $500,000 a year for the guy.

[blackthroatedwind]

Obviously this can be a real payday and I would assume one of the real perks for trainers who taken private stable jobs. I imagine, for instance, the shares Shug got in Seeking the Gold have worked out very well for him ( and deservedly so ). This can be a great annuity.

And, of course, there are downsides. For instance, sometimes the deals aren't in writing, and perhaps a relative ( maybe a son-in-law ) takes over a stable, and while running it into the ground, he strips a trainer of what were promised, and very valuable, breeding rights.

Ah, but I'm sure nothing like that ever happened.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Obviously this can be a real payday and I would assume one of the real perks for trainers who taken private stable jobs. I imagine, for instance, the shares Shug got in Seeking the Gold have worked out very well for him ( and deservedly so ). This can be a great annuity.

And, of course, there are downsides. For instance, sometimes the deals aren't in writing, and perhaps a relative ( maybe a son-in-law ) takes over a stable, and while running it into the ground, he strips a trainer of what were promised, and very valuable, breeding rights.

Ah, but I'm sure nothing like that ever happened.

Nick has done very well with those as well.

[Gander]

Why would the trainer get the appearance fee over the owner? That doesnt make any sense to me. That would be like instead of David Lee Roth getting residuals every time one of his songs plays on the radio, his producer gets it.
Baffert got it for Point Given? To me thats insane. Should go to the owner.

And I dont think Flower Alley is anywhere near ready to be earning an appearance fee.

Originally Posted by Gander

Why would the trainer get the appearance fee over the owner? That doesnt make any sense to me. That would be like instead of David Lee Roth getting residuals every time one of his songs plays on the radio, his producer gets it.
Baffert got it for Point Given? To me thats insane. Should go to the owner.

And I dont think Flower Alley is anywhere near ready to be earning an appearance fee.

The owner of Point Given was like a friend to Baffert. $50K to Prince Ahmed was pocket change. Baffert paid him back with a KD winnning purchase in War Emblem. Too bad the guy died in his early 40's.

Originally Posted by boldruler

The owner of Point Given was like a friend to Baffert. $50K to Prince Ahmed was pocket change. Baffert paid him back with a KD winnning purchase in War Emblem. Too bad the guy died in his early 40's.

Thats the bottom line. To the Prince it was a pittance. He alreayd had a 50 million dollar breeding deal on him as well. Baffert took the 50 why? Because it was offered. Shoot, thats where the damn horse was gonna run anyway, they didn't need to give him the 50 to get him to come. I'm sure NOONE here would take 50 grand that was offered to them to run a horse where you were gonna run him in the first place, right? LOL!!

[Gander]

I would take it too, but I dont think any trainer ever deserves the fee, only the owner. Its kind of like taking candy from a baby's mouth, then again I would take candy from a baby's mouth if it were jujy fruits or gummy bears.