Finally, JUSTICE:

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

My god, the boy was 17, there is no way to be sure that he was any more "mature" than the 15yo girl...2 years!!?? This young lady has been outspoken, along with her mother, that she was quite sexually experienced. We need laws to protect children, not persecute them! She admits that she instigated the encounter...to me, this entire thing is absurd.

Actually, it's absurd to think that 15 yo girls are as capable as 17 yo boys of making these kind of judgements. What would you want to do...? ... Have laws subject to a "MAturity IQ Test?" Maybe you think it's ok for a 17 yo to decide that having public sex with a 15 yo girl is an ok thing. I do not.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Actually, it's absurd to think that 15 yo girls are as capable as 17 yo boys of making these kind of judgements. What would you want to do...? ... Have laws subject to a "MAturity IQ Test?" Maybe you think it's ok for a 17 yo to decide that having public sex with a 15 yo girl is an ok thing. I do not.

Unfortunately with the law, you have to rely on set standards such as a specific age...what should happen is that the intent of the law should be considered along with the letter of same. If a 40yo man was involved here, it would be a different story but there is no way to judge the maturity of the two kids involved here...BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH KIDS. I'll go out a a limb and say this young lady knew exactly what she was doing and as she said, enjoyed doing it. He was acting like most 17 year old guys...this was an encounter between two kids who both wanted it...no way the law should be involved and to call this kid a sexual predator and sentence him to 10 years without parole is insane! Where was the harm? Who was the Victim? Two years later and the girl still denies being a victim...she's 17 now so I guess by your standards she's magically evolved to a place where she would know?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Unfortunately with the law, you have to rely on set standards such as a specific age...what should happen is that the intent of the law should be considered along with the letter of same. If a 40yo man was involved here, it would be a different story but there is no way to judge the maturity of the two kids involved here...BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH KIDS. I'll go out a a limb and say this young lady knew exactly what she was doing and as she said, enjoyed doing it. He was acting like most 17 year old guys...this was an encounter between two kids who both wanted it...no way the law should be involved and to call this kid a sexual predator and sentence him to 10 years without parole is insane! Where was the harm? Who was the Victim? Two years later and the girl still denies being a victim...she's 17 now so I guess by your standards she's magically evolved to a place where she would know?

Sorry, I won't take the bait. I'll end by saying that if you think there is no difference between a 15 yo girl and a 17 yo boy, then you are out on a pretty lonely limb.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Sorry, I won't take the bait. I'll end by saying that if you think there is no difference between a 15 yo girl and a 17 yo boy, then you are out on a pretty lonely limb.

Well, I think you're pretty naive so we disagree. What I said was that there is no hard fast rule that a particular 17 year old boy is necessarily more mature than a particular 15 yo girl...both are kids. It's interesting to me how people like to challenge me and when I answer a question and pose one in return they duck rather than answer. Again...the girl is now 17, according to your view (the boy at 17 was mature enough to be held responsible), why isn't she now mature enough to make sexual decisions? She continues to say she intiated it, she was experienced previously, and she enjoyed it and doesn't feel the slightest bit like a victim, why is she wrong and you right? Do you know more about her, her emotions, wants, needs and desires than she does?

[Danzig]

isn't it a general rule that girls mature faster than boys? so she's fifteen, but possibly on par with a 17 year old boy....

also, she's immature--yet most states would allow her to make the oh so adult decision to have an abortion--if she killed someone, you can bet your sweet patootie they'd fight tooth and nail to have her charged as an adult. how convenient that the law can decide adulthood when they wish!


the fact is tho, regardless of what awful things occurred in that room, that he was sentenced to ten years due to having oral sex. not sex--the others who had intercourse with her were not charged. i think it's a travesty, and i hope he is released asap.

btw, i didn't do that crap at that age either.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well, I think you're pretty naive so we disagree. What I said was that there is no hard fast rule that a particular 17 year old boy is necessarily more mature than a particular 15 yo girl...both are kids. It's interesting to me how people like to challenge me and when I answer a question and pose one in return they duck rather than answer. Again...the girl is now 17, according to your view (the boy at 17 was mature enough to be held responsible), why isn't she now mature enough to make sexual decisions? She continues to say she intiated it, she was experienced previously, and she enjoyed it and doesn't feel the slightest bit like a victim, why is she wrong and you right? Do you know more about her, her emotions, wants, needs and desires than she does?

What question did you ask me? I'll be more than happy to answer.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What question did you ask me? I'll be more than happy to answer.

Can't you read?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

isn't it a general rule that girls mature faster than boys? so she's fifteen, but possibly on par with a 17 year old boy....

also, she's immature--yet most states would allow her to make the oh so adult decision to have an abortion--if she killed someone, you can bet your sweet patootie they'd fight tooth and nail to have her charged as an adult. how convenient that the law can decide adulthood when they wish!


the fact is tho, regardless of what awful things occurred in that room, that he was sentenced to ten years due to having oral sex. not sex--the others who had intercourse with her were not charged. i think it's a travesty, and i hope he is released asap.

btw, i didn't do that crap at that age either.

Yep, honestly though there is no way of knowing which was more mature but the issue is that they were both kids...even the state congressman who drafted the law said he never intended it to be used against kids...and, largely due to this case, the law was changed! This is a case where a law designed to protect kids from sexual predators was used to ensnare a poor kid who is guilty of poor judgement...god, if that was a crime we'd all be doing life!

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Can't you read?

You flatter yourself with your bullsh1t about "people avoid me, etc... when I ask a question."

If you had a 17 year old son and lived in a state where it is illegal for a 17 year old male to have sex with a 15 year old female and your son got his knob polished in front of a bunch of other people while being taped, would you be shocked if he got prosecuted? Personally I would not. If you think that's not something to be prosecuted, that's fine with me. I don't care.

I could care less about convincing you or anyone here about a point of view. Just expressing one.

As far as your asinine "Can't you read?" comment, it's, well, just asinine.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

You flatter yourself with your bullsh1t about "people avoid me, etc... when I ask a question."

If you had a 17 year old son and lived in a state where it is illegal for a 17 year old male to have sex with a 15 year old female and your son got his knob polished in front of a bunch of other people while being taped, would you be shocked if he got prosecuted? Personally I would not. If you think that's not something to be prosecuted, that's fine with me. I don't care.

I could care less about convincing you or anyone here about a point of view. Just expressing one.

As far as your asinine "Can't you read?" comment, it's, well, just asinine.

You're the one who asked "what question" after I asked it twice in plain english...I understand it's just your way of avoiding the question, I'm not flattering myself...don't have to! it's simple really...I asked twice and your response..."what question". Well, I'm still waiting for a response but I realize that you'll probably just trot out more mush. Would I be surprised if he got prosecuted...I'd be way beyond surprised if he got ten years with no parole! Do I personally think it should be a crime for two kids to have consentual sex? No, I don't think prosecuting them is the answer. Now if the boy was 17 and the girl 5 then you have a different story of course, but an experienced 15 yo giving consensual head to a 17 yo should not be a crime imo. In order to have a crime, you need a victim...the girl says absolutely she's not a victim so who is?

[The Bid]

If I had a 17 year old son and he poled some 15 year old whore at a party I would be furious if they tried to prosecute. 15 is old enough for the girl to know better, and old enough for the guy to know shes a whore. If the guy was 19 youd have an argument, but he was 17. Probably goes to the same school with the girl, probably knows her weekend routine, and was just being opportunistic.

I just realized it was a bj, the kid should have gotten highfives, not 10w no parole.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Bid

If I had a 17 year old son and he poled some 15 year old whore at a party I would be furious if they tried to prosecute. 15 is old enough for the girl to know better, and old enough for the guy to know shes a whore. If the guy was 19 youd have an argument, but he was 17. Probably goes to the same school with the girl, probably knows her weekend routine, and was just being opportunistic.

Well, I'm not comfortable with her being called a whore but otherwise I guess I agree with you! When I was in school, a guy who did a different girl every night was admired, even worshiped as a stud while a girl doing the same...well, a double standard to be sure!

[The Bid]

God I remember highschool/college

She cant be anything less than a whore jumping guys like that. Shame that a young girl would think that little of herself, but not the any of the fellas fault

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by The Bid

If I had a 17 year old son and he poled some 15 year old whore at a party I would be furious if they tried to prosecute. 15 is old enough for the girl to know better, and old enough for the guy to know shes a whore. If the guy was 19 youd have an argument, but he was 17. Probably goes to the same school with the girl, probably knows her weekend routine, and was just being opportunistic.

I just realized it was a bj, the kid should have gotten highfives, not 10w no parole.

If you didn't take the time to know what kind of behavior would get your kid in trouble and talk to him about that being part of having responsible sex, then yes, you'd be right to be furious at yourself.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Bid

God I remember highschool/college

She cant be anything less than a whore jumping guys like that. Shame that a young girl would think that little of herself, but not the any of the fellas fault

Humm, I agree to some extent that girls who become sexually active that early often have identity and/or self-worth issues; often from single parent homes, sometimes with a history of sexual abuse. They see sex as a way of feeling close to someone, often confusing it with love. Still, everyone is different and it isn't impossible for a woman or girl to simply like sex..while our society would call that deviant, I'm not sure it is...nevertheless, if it's a woman/girl, she will usually suffer as a result.

[The Bid]

I wouldnt want my 17 year old son in a sock every weekend. I would expect a normal 17 year old kid to go out and see what the ladies are about.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

If you didn't take the time to know what kind of behavior would get your kid in trouble and talk to him about that being part of having responsible sex, then yes, you'd be right to be furious at yourself.

Parenting is an art form not a science...I helped my former wife raise 3 kids and by the grace of the Almighty they all evolved into decent and happy adults. What does "responsible sex" mean? If it means taking precautions to avoid pregnancy then I agree, if it comes with some moral judgement then that's debatable.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I wouldnt want my 17 year old son in a sock every weekend. I would expect a normal 17 year old kid to go out and see what the ladies are about.

I agree...sex is a "normal" part of life, having sex means being responsible (if the girl gets pregnant then the guy is a daddy) but to expect teenage boys (who studies say think about sex every 7-10 minutes) to avoid temptation is naive...same with girls imo!

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

You're the one who asked "what question" after I asked it twice in plain english...I understand it's just your way of avoiding the question, I'm not flattering myself...don't have to! it's simple really...I asked twice and your response..."what question". Well, I'm still waiting for a response but I realize that you'll probably just trot out more mush. Would I be surprised if he got prosecuted...I'd be way beyond surprised if he got ten years with no parole! Do I personally think it should be a crime for two kids to have consentual sex? No, I don't think prosecuting them is the answer. Now if the boy was 17 and the girl 5 then you have a different story of course, but an experienced 15 yo giving consensual head to a 17 yo should not be a crime imo. In order to have a crime, you need a victim...the girl says absolutely she's not a victim so who is?

OK, your question was "Do I believe girls magically mature between the ages of 15 and 16?" I don't believe in magic.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Parenting is an art form not a science...I helped my former wife raise 3 kids and by the grace of the Almighty they all evolved into decent and happy adults. What does "responsible sex" mean? If it means taking precautions to avoid pregnancy then I agree, if it comes with some moral judgement then that's debatable.

That can mean different things to different people but in my opinion it always includes knowing what can get you arrested, prosecuted and sentenced to 10 years.