Barbaro continues to Improve

[Danzig]

screws do get replaced if they are bent. taking into consideration the seriousness of the initial injury, the # of screws inserted, i doubt this wasn't considered a possibility. besides, those screws are holding all those pieces together until they knit together, seems you'd want to get them back together in good shape, and bent screws aren't going to help that much.

every day this horse makes it is good news. the further along he gets, the better. considering everything he's gone thru, there has to be a lot of surprise that he hadn't had setbacks before now. a setback yes, gloom and doom, no.

[blackthroatedwind]

The screws bending is a sign that the graft didn't hold and it is unlikely when they closed him up six weeks ago they expected to put in more screws. Far from impossible but not in the original plan. Like you said, it's a setback, and hopefully he will be fine. But none of this is good news nor was it planned originally. That doesn't, however, mean it's terrible news.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The screws bending is a sign that the graft didn't hold and it is unlikely when they closed him up six weeks ago they expected to put in more screws. Far from impossible but not in the original plan. Like you said, it's a setback, and hopefully he will be fine. But none of this is good news nor was it planned originally. That doesn't, however, mean it's terrible news.

Wrong. Stop posting nonsense you know nothing about.

[blackthroatedwind]

Actually I had an extensive conversation with a surgeon about this before posting.

I have no idea why you jumped on earlier posters who were just stating the obvious, as I am, about yesterday's news. The additional surgery is cause for pause. That's all.

I'm sure we all wish Barbaro the best but that doesn't preclude talking about this realistically.

And it won't.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Personal interests aside, I highly doubt this is good news, and am skeptical that replacing the screws was always the plan. Screws don't get replaced and it feels like there should be a serious concern that the bone grafts didn't take. Probably the biggest concern is that opening him up again brings back the risk of infection so, in that case, he could be sadly bad to where he was weeks ago.

Hey, obviously we all hope he makes it, that goes without saying, but sorry if I find nothing wrong with attempting to inject a little reality into this situation. I will trust what a doctor told me over vague supposed connections to the owners and spin.

I have to sweat for the next 4 hours at Shea, but you post complete garbage. Enough with your "I highly doubt" and nonsense. No DVM told you anything either, so stop lying. No DVM would ever comment on the top DVM in the country and his patient. My "vague supposed connections to the owners" has been my friend for over a decade and he has known the Jacksons all his life. Enough with garbage posters like you pretending you know something about the situation. You know nothing. I love the "the biggest concern is that opening him up again brings back the risk of infection", any idiot know that, but let me guess, your doctor friend told you that. Hilarious.

As for your "I find nothing wrong with attempting to inject a little reality into this situation", what reality is that? The one you made up in your head? I am sure the people at New Bolton think this is bad news, but they just forgot to tell the owners and the press. Wake up and enter the world of reality. Typical Barbaro Basher.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Actually I had an extensive conversation with a surgeon about this before posting.

I have no idea why you jumped on earlier posters who were just stating the obvious, as I am, about yesterday's news. The additional surgery is cause for pause. That's all.

I'm sure we all wish Barbaro the best but that doesn't preclude talking about this realistically.

And it won't.

SURE YOU DID. I am sure surgeons have plenty of time to talk to you about anything, let alone other doctor's patients. Enough with your lying. Nobody believes any DVM, let alone a surgeon, which there are a handul of, is sitting around with you on a holiday weekend talking about Barbaro. Why don't I just say I talked directly to Dr. Richardson? Hilarious. I admit my conversation was with a friend that spoke with the family, in fact, my friend spoke to his father that spoke to the family, but even if I am the 3rd person down the chain it is more believable than some guy who claims a surgeon was talking to him this morning about Barbaro.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by boldruler

SURE YOU DID. I am sure surgeons have plenty of time to talk to you about anything, let alone other doctor's patients. Enough with your lying. Nobody believes any DVM, let alone a surgeon, which there are a handul of, is sitting around with you on a holiday weekend talking about Barbaro. Why don't I just say I talked directly to Dr. Richardson? Hilarious. I admit my conversation was with a friend that spoke with the family, in fact, my friend spoke to his father that spoke to the family, but even if I am the 3rd person down the chain it is more believable than some guy who claims a surgeon was talking to him this morning about Barbaro.

Dude, you need to relax. Sorry if it upsets you that others are allowed to post opinions about this. Tough.

So, now you're a friend of a friend. That's great.

I have a LOT of friends as well. I just don't blab about it on the internet. And, frankly, you're the one turning this into an argument.

Just relax, because people have a right to post things you disagree with. And, frankly, your snide remarks claiming I lied about talking to a doctor are insulting.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Dude, you need to relax. Sorry if it upsets you that others are allowed to post opinions about this. Tough.

So, now you're a friend of a friend. That's great.

I have a LOT of friends as well. I just don't blab about it on the internet. And, frankly, you're the one turning this into an argument.

Just relax, because people have a right to post things you disagree with. And, frankly, your snide remarks claiming I lied about talking to a doctor are insulting.

I have always been a friend of a friend. I have met the owners but they aren't my friend. He said they were told the horse is doing great and that the surgery was not something they were surprised by and that the horse is continuing to improve.

People can post whatever they want, but you lies about talking to a surgeon this morning border on ridiculous. Most people didn't even know about his surgery until this morning and I doubt this surgeon you talked to was just available while you were posting on some website. Hilarious. Lies on chats are expected, but that one is way out there.

Ruler you really need to stop with the God complex. For the millionth time, there are plenty of people here who know huge folks in the game, and we actually know them ourselves, not through a friend who knows them,
I can assure you that the poster whom you just insulted knows plenty of folks himself. I also know that the person to whom you are insulting would never post that he spoke to a surgeon without having done so.
I have no idea why you attack people who also happen to know folks in this game and I find it bizarre as well. Lighten up.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm not looking for a fight, and I'm not sure why you are making this into one, but I tell you what....the surgeon I have discussed this with, yeah I just hung up on him again ( and I never said he was a vet but we can discuss that if you REALLY want to ) will be staying with me opening week at Saratoga. You are more than welcome to get together with us and discuss this with us. That would be great. Feel free to PM me and I will tell you where to find us.

Originally Posted by boldruler

I have always been a friend of a friend. I have met the owners but they aren't my friend. He said they were told the horse is doing great and that the surgery was not something they were surprised by and that the horse is continuing to improve.

People can post whatever they want, but you lies about talking to a surgeon this morning border on ridiculous. Most people didn't even know about his surgery until this morning and I doubt this surgeon you talked to was just available while you were posting on some website. Hilarious. Lies on chats are expected, but that one is way out there.

You must stop with the claims of lying Ruler.

Originally Posted by oracle80

You must stop with the claims of lying Ruler.

The guys probably knows a ton more than me, but not about this situation. Look, no surgeon talked to him today about Barbaro. If you believe that, well you probably believe everything.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by boldruler

The guys probably knows a ton more than me, but not about this situation. Look, no surgeon talked to him today about Barbaro. If you believe that, well you probably believe everything.

you do understand that the surgeon he speaks of might be friend or family member--and that they might have been having a conversation around the dinner table--and that even without firsthand knowledge of a case most surgeons can offer substantial insight in to what may or may not occur. I don't think he is claiming to have had a personal consult with a surgeon to discuss barbaro. You sound a bit unglued.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by boldruler

The guys probably knows a ton more than me, but not about this situation. Look, no surgeon talked to him today about Barbaro. If you believe that, well you probably believe everything.

Why is it necessary to make this personal? I said I talked to a surgeon about this. I am accountable for what I say in ways very few here are.

Stop calling me a liar. It would upset my mother a great deal.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not looking for a fight, and I'm not sure why you are making this into one, but I tell you what....the surgeon I have discussed this with, yeah I just hung up on him again ( and I never said he was a vet but we can discuss that if you REALLY want to ) will be staying with me opening week at Saratoga. You are more than welcome to get together with us and discuss this with us. That would be great. Feel free to PM me and I will tell you where to find us.

You were the one who said " I will trust what a doctor told me over vague supposed connections to the owners and spin." If you want to question me, I will question you.

I will be up at Saratoga and might try to go to the sales with my friend, although I am not a buyer. I am sure he would love to hear the opinion of an MD on an operation to a horse. He told me the DVM that did the surgery said things were great, but I guess an MD who has never even touched the horse, knows better. I am not sure why the owners would spin anything. In fact, they have been trying to keep as little information as possible out there about the horse. They have a new star horse in Showing Up, and even though they didn't breed him like Barbaro, he is becoming a huge favorite of their entire operation. In fact, after next weekend Barbaro will be the top earner of all horses this year, and Showing Up will move into second. Pretty good for a medium sized operation like Lael.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ruler you really need to stop with the God complex. For the millionth time, there are plenty of people here who know huge folks in the game, and we actually know them ourselves, not through a friend who knows them,
I can assure you that the poster whom you just insulted knows plenty of folks himself. I also know that the person to whom you are insulting would never post that he spoke to a surgeon without having done so.
I have no idea why you attack people who also happen to know folks in this game and I find it bizarre as well. Lighten up.

Coming from you, that first line is the funniest thing I have ever read.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Guys stop this ok. This is no topic to start a pissing match on. This horses survival is not only something we in the game who loved him are praying for, its also a very important thing for the industry. If he survives its a feel good story that the common person will love. If he does not, racing gets dealt another very bad PR blow. We can debate what actually is going on but it won't get us anywhere. In the end we will still all be in the same place praying for his recovery. How about we just leave it at that and fight about some other stuff. There is never a shortage of topics to squabble over on here and if need be I will start a thread where we can fight if only to stop this one from continuing on in this tone. Now how bad a thread has to be developing for ME to please ask people to stop? Geez, now thats bad. Enough please.

When Oracle steps in you know things are going down the wrong road, but he is exactly right. Pissing matches over someone you talked to or a vet you know are kind of morose for a conversation like this. The fact is, Dr. Richardson is Barbaro's doc and no one knows the situation better than him and he's not talking all too much. He also said its a long road back and there are bumps along the way. Interpeting every news item and debating whether its a bump or a good development or bad news, is kind of disrespectful to the people who brought the animal this far.

Ninety nine times out of one hundred, horses never leave the track alive when something like that happens. For that reason alone, Barbaro is a living, breathing miracle. The miracle was made possible by people like Prado, the vets on track, folks like Dr. Richardson, and the Jacksons, and the animal himself. Everyone had a small hand in it.

Knowing that, and how far the horse has gotten and how much emotion he invokes, I think it is borderline shameful that we as outsiders with less than common knowledge of the situation are sitting here making judgements on things we know nothing about. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but unless someone here performed this surgery on Barbaro, I dont think they are qualified to speak as to his health or lack there of.

[SentToStud]

Kind of silly, this whole thing. For all anyone knows, the screws got bent as a result of bone growing back. Then again, .... I remember reading that the number of screws used on Barbaro was more than used on any other horse with a similar condition. I'm more curious about the new screws. I'm sure there will be more public information soon enough as the press does it's job. The rest is just supposition. No reason for dirty words at twenty paces.

[blackthroatedwind]

First of all, I never said the surgery did not go well, and I am quite sure a great vet like Dr. Richardson did an exceptional job, and I have no reason to believe the surgery wasn't completely successful. What I did say was the fact that this surgery was necessary was cause for concern. I hardly see how that is out of line. I think all of us can reasonably agree that any surgery is a cause for concern. In this case, as I stated, it reintroduces the possibility of infection, and as my surgeon friend told me it probably increases that risk a little bit.

I think the opinion of a neutral ( and extremely qualified ) party is more informative in this case than the connections who even you are saying are being ( understandably ) tight lipped about this. I have no doubt that the medical opinions I heard are more than qualified. I am sorry you won't be in Saratoga the first week as I think you would be more than satisfied had you gotten together with us.

[ArlJim78]

This is looking like another ill-advised and mean-spirited thread to me. I'm expecting it to disappear quickly as we wouldn't want any newcomers to get the wrong idea.