Vick's Co-defendant gunna deal

Originally Posted by 3kings

It costs a great deal of money to build a case of this magnitude. There are many jurisdictions involved, local,state and federal. How come there has been no further mention of the drugs? Dog fighting happens in seedy sections of most cities on any given weekend but is not prosecuted to this extent. Let me stress that I think it is a dispicable crime, but does not warrant this type of prosecution.

Oh yes it does when you are an NFL QB. If it was not prosecuted to the fullest you would get the "oh there goes another entertainer getting off light". These are the days. If you are in the limelight and commit a Federal crime, expect to get hit.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 3kings

It costs a great deal of money to build a case of this magnitude. There are many jurisdictions involved, local,state and federal. How come there has been no further mention of the drugs? Dog fighting happens in seedy sections of most cities on any given weekend but is not prosecuted to this extent. Let me stress that I think it is a dispicable crime, but does not warrant this type of prosecution.

two of the defendants have to report for drug testing--sounds to me that they are up on drug charges, as the other two do not. also have electric monitoring on those two. repeat offenders, or facing charges beyond the dog case.

also, i'd hate to see money cited as a reason not to investigate crimes. again, most fed, state, local are paid to work regardless of type of case.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Oh yes it does when you are an NFL QB. If it was not prosecuted to the fullest you would get the "oh there goes another entertainer getting off light". These are the days. If you are in the limelight and commit a Federal crime, expect to get hit.

i think anyone involved in a federal crime should look out. i would imagine that once the surface was scratched, they found elements of a huge case, not the typical small time dog fighting. this covers multiple states, multiple crimes, and a lot of money changing hands--what they call an ongoing criminal enterprise.

[Danzig]

"Peace and Phillips each have drug convictions and were ordered to submit to testing, as well as an electronic monitoring program."


that's from an article on fox sports online.

[Danzig]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2952607

another article regarding the plea, and possible further charges forthcoming....

[Independent George]

Don't be surprised at anything King Glorious says. He is beyond cold-hearted. Only someone without an ounce of sensitivity or huamnity would feel nothing when viewing a dogs maiming each other for the sport of others, or when seeing a horse break down....any horse. But he loves to be controversial & he loves to disagree, but he is a mental midget. You're best bet is to ignore him....thats one thing he is sensitive about.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Independent George

Don't be surprised at anything King Glorious says. He is beyond cold-hearted. Only someone without an ounce of sensitivity or huamnity would feel nothing when viewing a dogs maiming each other for the sport of others, or when seeing a horse break down....any horse. But he loves to be controversial & he loves to disagree, but he is a mental midget. You're best bet is to ignore him....thats one thing he is sensitive about.

If it were humans, I WOULD feel something. To say I don't have any humanity when it's animals u are talking about doesn't make much sense.

Something interesting Pgardn said. He said that my opinion doesn't necessarily make me a good or bad person. I appreciate that. But to be honest, I would agree with those that say there is often a correlation between those that feel the way I do and those that would be apt to commit worse crimes. And to further that, I would also say that I'd agree that more often than not, those that feel the way I do are bad people overall. But that doesn't mean that we all are. I was brought up seeing dog and cock fighting on a regular basis. I never enjoyed it. There's also the possibility that when I first saw it, I was disgusted by it although it was so long ago that I don't remember. Afterwhile though, u just become desensitized to it. It happens all the time. Imagine if u lived in Darfur and had to see the dead bodies everyday, some of them your friends and family. At first, u would be horrified. But if u see it everyday, it doesn't have the same impact on u. This is very common in the ghettos of North America also. It's sad that this happens but it happens nonetheless.

Nobody is looking to be controversial at all. I'm not trying to disagree or argue with anyone either. I can't argue their opinion or how they feel. I can, however, argue facts. And the fact is that there are plenty of people out there that are like me that don't have a feeling about it either way but at the same time, don't condone it. And it doesn't mean that all of us are scum and a step away from being ready to rape or murder another human.

U know what is interesting is that ultimate fighting and mixed martial arts are two of the fastest growing sports in the country. I refuse to watch it at all or let my kids watch it because I feel that it's barbaric and dangerous. I could easily sit here and pass judgement on those that watch that stuff and say that they are cruel and sadistic people for enjoying watching two humans beat the hell out of each other, watching their faces get swollen up, blood all over the place, guys get put into comas, etc. But that's not for me to say. Everyone decides what they can accept and what they can't. Everyone decides what they enjoy and what they don't.

[Supah Brother]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I think Vick is a dirt bag and is in the wrong. I don't agree that there is a connection between dog fighting and committing crimes against other individuals. My issue with this topic is the millions of dollars spent to build the case against Vick. I do not condone his actions but I beleive our goverment money can be better spent.

Vick is a complete dirt bag and should be banned entirely from the NFL. You can tell alot about a man by the way he treats his animals.

http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/abuse_connection.php

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If it were humans, I WOULD feel something. To say I don't have any humanity when it's animals u are talking about doesn't make much sense.

Something interesting Pgardn said. He said that my opinion doesn't necessarily make me a good or bad person. I appreciate that. But to be honest, I would agree with those that say there is often a correlation between those that feel the way I do and those that would be apt to commit worse crimes. And to further that, I would also say that I'd agree that more often than not, those that feel the way I do are bad people overall. But that doesn't mean that we all are. I was brought up seeing dog and cock fighting on a regular basis. I never enjoyed it. There's also the possibility that when I first saw it, I was disgusted by it although it was so long ago that I don't remember. Afterwhile though, u just become desensitized to it. It happens all the time. Imagine if u lived in Darfur and had to see the dead bodies everyday, some of them your friends and family. At first, u would be horrified. But if u see it everyday, it doesn't have the same impact on u. This is very common in the ghettos of North America also. It's sad that this happens but it happens nonetheless.

Nobody is looking to be controversial at all. I'm not trying to disagree or argue with anyone either. I can't argue their opinion or how they feel. I can, however, argue facts. And the fact is that there are plenty of people out there that are like me that don't have a feeling about it either way but at the same time, don't condone it. And it doesn't mean that all of us are scum and a step away from being ready to rape or murder another human.

U know what is interesting is that ultimate fighting and mixed martial arts are two of the fastest growing sports in the country. I refuse to watch it at all or let my kids watch it because I feel that it's barbaric and dangerous. I could easily sit here and pass judgement on those that watch that stuff and say that they are cruel and sadistic people for enjoying watching two humans beat the hell out of each other, watching their faces get swollen up, blood all over the place, guys get put into comas, etc. But that's not for me to say. Everyone decides what they can accept and what they can't. Everyone decides what they enjoy and what they don't.

you're right about the de-sensitizing, as well as that not all who can't empathize being criminals. it's just part of it--most criminals also couldn't care less about morality, legality, etc.
very honest post. i also agree about the extreme fighting and such, not something i would enjoy. i don't even like boxing.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you're right about the de-sensitizing, as well as that not all who can't empathize being criminals. it's just part of it--most criminals also couldn't care less about morality, legality, etc.
very honest post. i also agree about the extreme fighting and such, not something i would enjoy. i don't even like boxing.

Well,if I even barely step on a dogs paw,they loudly squeal.So,you can imagine the sounds these people are able to put up with in these matches.If you can tolerate that,then you can tolerate human suffering.I am not buying the argument that it would bother him if it was human suffering.Why would he tell you what he really feels? DUH..........You know they have this thing in Ohio that they used to do.They have a ring of people surrounding foxes,and they have their kids beat up the foxes with sticks.The argument is that these people can do this,but would stop when it comes to doing it to humans.I don't buy it.You either find suffering disgusting,or you don't.If you can tolerate dogfighting,then you can easily tolerate human suffering. They can sell this "I got my limits" crap all they want,but I am not buying their garbage.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you're right about the de-sensitizing, as well as that not all who can't empathize being criminals. it's just part of it--most criminals also couldn't care less about morality, legality, etc.
very honest post. i also agree about the extreme fighting and such, not something i would enjoy. i don't even like boxing.

i agree with your take on this one Danzig. The only thing I'll add is that humans that decide to enter the ring do so of their own choice. A dog or a rooster doesn't.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think it comes down to intentions. People who use their own farm animals as food do so to eat. They dont torture the animals. Wringing the neck is a fairly quick, fairly painless way to kill food in the form of a bird. The people want to efficiently and quickly kill the animals so they can get down to butchering. I had to wring the neck of a goose that had been shot by a friend. The goose was flailing around in a rice paddy (he cussed at himself for a bad shot that did not lead to a clean kill). It was not pleasant and I actually completely tore the head and neck off and sent the body of the goose catapulting 50 yards. My friend got mad and said I should not hammer throw the bird (geese are quite large). I had never done it before and just wanted to make sure the bird was not suffering.
I think this is very different than putting animals together knowing they will tear each other apart and suffer... very different. Killing animals for food is not a new invention by humans. Neither is torturing animals for some thrill. But I would argue the torture for thrill is done on a much smaller scale and is clearly not done for survival (eating). Its done for entertainment. Torture for entertainment. Very different.

Oh I agree 100%, I was just saying that it takes a different kind of person to be able to do that....now survival is a whole different ingredient.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Sam,
I agree that this thread is interesting.
The only thing I'll add is that there's a huge difference between killing an animal for food (quickly and without suffering) and watching one die slowly, suffering for entertainment. It's the difference between stopping at KFC for a big bucket of deepfried on the way to the cockfights.
And, for those that put in the effort to get a horse on to the track, all I can tell you is there is incredible care and patience. When one is injured, or worse yet euthanized, there is an emotional loss.
Interesting thread.

agree....hell there is emotional loss to the fan, I can't imagine being and owner, trainer, and probably the one that endures the greatest pain, the groom...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Samarta

agree....hell there is emotional loss to the fan, I can't imagine being and owner, trainer, and probably the one that endures the greatest pain, the groom...

Samarta,
Being a breeder, all I can tell you is the thrill of seeing them stand up for the first time on those wobbly legs. Lots of people along the way become very involved in the horse's development from that point on. Lots... the breakers, the hot walkers,the barn crew...so much goes into a horse before it even gets to its first race. It's painful for everyone.