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  #21  
Old 07-30-2007, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ArlJim78
great that Street Sense is still racing and all, but I wasn't terribly impressed with the performance. Lawyer Ron would have kicked his ass.
Lawyer Ron is also a year older than SS. Also this was SS first race since May. I think you can expect more from SS in the future and I would imagine that LR will digress a little from his great performance in the Whitney.
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2007, 12:58 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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Originally Posted by whodey17
Lawyer Ron is also a year older than SS. Also this was SS first race since May. I think you can expect more from SS in the future and I would imagine that LR will digress a little from his great performance in the Whitney.
He is a year older but isn't Street Sense planning to take on all comers, including Lawyer Ron in a few months in the Classic? I just wonder how much more you will see from Street Sense, he always looks the same to me which is quite good, but not overpowering. He should have handed that field a Bernardini style thrashing. Instead, all I saw was that he managed to get up in time to beat CP West.
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2007, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ArlJim78
He is a year older but isn't Street Sense planning to take on all comers, including Lawyer Ron in a few months in the Classic? I just wonder how much more you will see from Street Sense, he always looks the same to me which is quite good, but not overpowering. He should have handed that field a Bernardini style thrashing. Instead, all I saw was that he managed to get up in time to beat CP West.
I thought it was a good performance for being off 71 days. I feel that this time of year, 3 year olds have more room to improve than 4 year olds. I think that LR has peaked and will start to level off. I think SS will be able to iimprove more and be primed for his best for BCC day.
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ArlJim78
He should have handed that field a Bernardini style thrashing. Instead, all I saw was that he managed to get up in time to beat CP West.
I doubt Nafzger had him cranked up, first off layoff, and he uses preps for just that. He's always said the goal is the Classic after the Derby.

I was wondering why they were all so very happy and excited after the win. I figure it was because they didn't expect the win - they just wanted him to run well (maybe top three), and get this prep under his belt. That he won on class and natural ability alone, maybe surprised them a bit and reinforced how good they think this horse is, that he could easily beat those at 80% or so.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2007, 07:53 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
You are right. But before Saturday, would you have included Lawyer Ron in possible Classic contenders. He ran out of this world big, almost unbelievable.

In the past in my opinion Nafzger hasn't had Street Sense fully cranked in his preps for a big race. We have seen how he performs in the biggies, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
well yes I considered Lawyer Ron a potential classic contender before Saturday. why not? he has improved in every start for Pletcher and its up for grabs. The race Saturday showed another dimension entirely.

I think Street Sense has a lot more to worry about than Lawyer Ron though. I don't know who is going to the Travers but I don't think its a gimme for him.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I don't think it's going to be a gimme either, but who is out there that could give him a run? I'm not sold on Lawyer Ron, don't ask me why. That was just too good a performance, by a good, but not that good a horse. Maybe Pletcher has moved him up that much, but something stinks in that race.
As I stated in the Lawyer Ron time thread, they ran a freak-out race. It happens, and I agree they won't run back to it.

He's a very good horse, but not all time good as the time/figure would indicate.
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I can't imagine Asmussen was looking for a last place finish today. The horse never looked interested IMO and didn't show the speed he had last year. Unfortunately I think we have seen his last race. I thought it was crazy for him to be in this race and even crazier to see him go in the Travers.
rank early, tired late....IMO not pretty.
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Too bad too, because I liked him a lot last year. Probably not the ideal spot to come off a layoff either.
The vet should've recieved that wire transfer today.
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  #29  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I will give Pletcher camp credit, because they have seemed to fix the rankness problem Lawyer Ron had last year. Maybe the fact he's getting stronger jocks on him, or someone in the Pletcher camp deserves a big raise.
Same thing I noticed... huge improvement in that regard.
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:33 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I don't think it's going to be a gimme either, but who is out there that could give him a run? I'm not sold on Lawyer Ron, don't ask me why. That was just too good a performance, by a good, but not that good a horse. Maybe Pletcher has moved him up that much, but something stinks in that race.
maybe, but what is it that stinks? it looks honest in all respects. the only thing that will answer that question is more races.

as far as who could beat Street Sense? I don't know yet, I'll tell you the day before the Travers, how's that?
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  #31  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I will give Pletcher camp credit, because they have seemed to fix the rankness problem Lawyer Ron had last year. Maybe the fact he's getting stronger jocks on him, or someone in the Pletcher camp deserves a big raise.
He almost pulled P Val out of the saddle in the BCC last year throwing his head around, and PVal is one STRONG dude. Training him in draw reins was genius...
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  #32  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
well yes I considered Lawyer Ron a potential classic contender before Saturday. why not? he has improved in every start for Pletcher and its up for grabs. The race Saturday showed another dimension entirely.

I think Street Sense has a lot more to worry about than Lawyer Ron though. I don't know who is going to the Travers but I don't think its a gimme for him.
Nafzger is at his best when he sets a goal for his horse and points to a specific race and trains up to it, see BC Juvenille 2006 and KY Derby 2007. He laid out pinpoint plans to get the horse there and have him ready to win. He won both.

He freely admitted he had no real plan after the Derby. No surprise that SS got nosed out. The question is, what is the long term goal of Nafzger for SS? Is it the Travers or the BC Classic. I argue that it is both. Old school guys like Nafzger view the Travers as the fourth jewel in the Triple Crown. He said leading up to the Jim Dandy, he didnt care if SS lost, he just needed to get sharper off the long lay off. It wasn't overly impressive, but the horse did what was necessary to win the race, which in the end, that was all the trainer was looking for.

Next stop will be the Travers, maybe a race vs olders in late Sept/early Oct and then train up to the BC Classic. With Nafzger's precise schedule and track record for having his horses ready for the spot that is the ultimate destination (Derby, BC Juvy) combined with the fact that SS is bound to improve off the Dandy, even more so third off the layoff (like the Derby) in a prep for the BCC or the BCC itself, along with a natural maturing horse late in a three year old campaign, I'm not sure how you can be overly disappointed in SS's performance in the Dandy.

Crushing fields did nothing to help Bernardini in the BCC last year, he got a look in the eye and spit the bit. Street Sense will go into the BCC well tested and well prepared.
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  #33  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ArlJim78
maybe, but what is it that stinks? it looks honest in all respects. the only thing that will answer that question is more races.

as far as who could beat Street Sense? I don't know yet, I'll tell you the day before the Travers, how's that?
LOL... why say you know Street Sense could get beat when you don't even know which horses are in the field?
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  #34  
Old 07-30-2007, 10:55 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
What stinks? Come on man. He ran Ghostzapper fast in the race. All of the sudden midway through his 4 year old year he has a breakthrough like that? And Wanderin Boy, where did his super fast race come from? It just seems fishy to me. I find it hard to believe either horse has a race like that in them. I could be wrong, but head to head I'll take Street Sense over Lawyer Ron if they meet up in the Classic.
I know he ran a fast race, his best race, it happens. I think you may be missing the big picture. This didn't happen overnight for Lawyer Ron. In the past it was not uncommon for horses to come into their own at 4.

For the classic, if they both do make it, at this point I would definetely go with Lawyer Ron headsup. I have this gut feeling though that Street Sense won't make it.
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  #35  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:07 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cajungator26
LOL... why say you know Street Sense could get beat when you don't even know which horses are in the field?
because obvious horses lose all the time.

because Street Sense has been beaten before.

because I don't see him moving forward as a 3yo.

because I know that other 3yo's are developing/improving.

therefore, depending on who shows up in the Travers I do think he is elligible to get beat at miniscule odds.
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  #36  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:12 PM
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ESPN, you know, the world wide leader in sports, is too busy showing poker, fishing, and/or cheerleading. Not showing races nationally showing stars like SS is in my opinion one of the dumbest things the sport can do. But hey, not much we fans can do about. Seriously though, who is in charge of getting these races on national TV? Is it that difficult? Has Horse Racing fallen so much that we can't see a kentucky derby winner on national TV? Simply unbelievable!!!
don't forget rock paper scissors tournaments!
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  #37  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:15 PM
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don't forget rock paper scissors tournaments!
Don't forget....They like to show how many Hot Dogs some A-Hole can eat.
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  #38  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:16 PM
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Don't forget....They like to show how many Hot Dogs some A-Hole can eat.
then isn't he doing it wrong?!?!
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  #39  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:18 PM
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then isn't he doing it wrong?!?!
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  #40  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:25 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers
Nafzger is at his best when he sets a goal for his horse and points to a specific race and trains up to it, see BC Juvenille 2006 and KY Derby 2007. He laid out pinpoint plans to get the horse there and have him ready to win. He won both.

He freely admitted he had no real plan after the Derby. No surprise that SS got nosed out. The question is, what is the long term goal of Nafzger for SS? Is it the Travers or the BC Classic. I argue that it is both. Old school guys like Nafzger view the Travers as the fourth jewel in the Triple Crown. He said leading up to the Jim Dandy, he didnt care if SS lost, he just needed to get sharper off the long lay off. It wasn't overly impressive, but the horse did what was necessary to win the race, which in the end, that was all the trainer was looking for.

Next stop will be the Travers, maybe a race vs olders in late Sept/early Oct and then train up to the BC Classic. With Nafzger's precise schedule and track record for having his horses ready for the spot that is the ultimate destination (Derby, BC Juvy) combined with the fact that SS is bound to improve off the Dandy, even more so third off the layoff (like the Derby) in a prep for the BCC or the BCC itself, along with a natural maturing horse late in a three year old campaign, I'm not sure how you can be overly disappointed in SS's performance in the Dandy.

Crushing fields did nothing to help Bernardini in the BCC last year, he got a look in the eye and spit the bit. Street Sense will go into the BCC well tested and well prepared.
you are right on about Nafzger and how he maps out a plan to have the horse peak on the big days. Also you have listed two very big days that SS has delivered on already, the BCJ and the Derby. I look at it this way, what else is there to prove with the horse? does he really need the classic to prove he is an elite horse? no. But the rest of the field in the classic will.

I'm not convinced about how much more improvement we're going to see from him. He is the first horse to carry over his winning form from the juvenile to the derby. What a huge step it would be to keep it going through the fall and win the classic. Totally unprecedented. When you talk about a naturally improving 3yo I think more about a horse that is only now coming into his peak form, for the first time. Not about a horse who at two ran the fastest juvenile ever.

we'll see how it turns out, count me as skeptical of him reaching new heights.

I disagree about Bernardini last year. No shame in how he ran in the classic, I wouldn't call it spitting the bit. He lost to an extraordinary horse, a better horse, but his race in the classic was exceptional.
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