4 in a row for Pletcher both baby races

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Mr. Brooklynite (with all due respect )

GET A GRIP............

Comparing "the flavor of the month" to a guy who runs one of the BEST operations I have EVER seen is like comparing all those other fillies to Affectonately.

Hey ... look what the cat just dragged in!

Welcome back, oh mighty one!

Yeah ... he's a terrific trainer ... that's indisputable ... but you better than anyone else should know that training a colt to consistently win G1 races at classic distances isn't something that just falls into your lap. Anyone who does it deserves a lot of credit for achieving it ... even if it only happens once.

But Pletcher hasn't done it ... not even once ... despite enormous opportunites to do so. I don't claim to understand why he hasn't ... I just report the facts, ma'am.

And I'll compare another filly to Affectionately when that filly wins a graded stakes race carrying 137 pounds. That boils it down to Ta Wee ... and I'm not holding my breath until another one like them comes along.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

you have got to be kidding. servis was lucky enough to have that horse show up in his stable. he was in the right place at the right time, much like risen stars connections! winning a classic doesn't make you a classic!!
winning a classic race means you're the best?! right. that's like saying derrick cope is a hall of fame driver because he lucked into a daytona 500 win.

See my previous response ... Smarty Jones became a classic champion because of the great job Servis did with him.

There have been lots of colts with the same amount of talent ... but very few became champions like Smarty Jones ... and none of them were trained by Pletcher.

Don't denigrate the great work Servis did ... just to make excuses for Pletcher. Developing a colt into a consistent winner at classic distances is very hard to do ... and no one knows that better than Pletcher.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

See my previous response ... Smarty Jones became a classic champion because of the great job Servis did with him.

There have been lots of colts with the same amount of talent ... but very few became champions like Smarty Jones ... and none of them were trained by Pletcher.

Don't denigrate the great work Servis did ... just to make excuses for Pletcher. Developing a colt into a consistent winner at classic distances is very hard to do ... and no one knows that better than Pletcher.

Pletcher doesn't need any excuses. He's got enough Money Won titles and enough Eclipse Awards to do his talking. Servis... lol. What a fool. I guess Billy Turner is more accomplished as well.

[jpops757]

Does anyone think all these owners with the million dollar babies are sending them to Pletcher because he cant win a TC rACE? Whos the best? There is room for all and if you prefere on to the other that proves why there is room for all in tis game. I love a trainer like Cody Autry that consistantly claims horses for 5-10k and moves them up and wins. When he attracts a owner with a nice stble of younguns he could be a force but untill then he will find his niche and be a great trainer in what he does. None of the top trainers need to be dissed they all have earned there way. Some specialize, turfers. routers, sprinters,babies, or olderhorses.All make mistakes but they attract there clientel for a reason. This place would be very dull if we only had plain vanilla icecream.

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Well BOSS, I'll leave the TP schmooz alone. I do not know the guy, but the job he is doing makes me tired just thinkin aboud it.

Then you must be getting old ...

... 'cause you never got tired watching Hirsch Jacobs ... when you were 50 years younger. In fact ... Hirsch probably got tired watching you!

Originally Posted by jpops757

Does anyone think all these owners with the million dollar babies are sending them to Pletcher because he cant win a TC rACE? Whos the best? There is room for all and if you prefere on to the other that proves why there is room for all in tis game. I love a trainer like Cody Autry that consistantly claims horses for 5-10k and moves them up and wins. When he attracts a owner with a nice stble of younguns he could be a force but untill then he will find his niche and be a great trainer in what he does. None of the top trainers need to be dissed they all have earned there way. Some specialize, turfers. routers, sprinters,babies, or olderhorses.All make mistakes but they attract there clientel for a reason. This place would be very dull if we only had plain vanilla icecream.

I would give him mine if I had a great 2yr old. I would also look at Tagg and Matz. The fact is Pletcher ran second this year, the horse that beat him was a great horse. Barbaro's performance was one of the best in the history of the race. If Pletcher was going backwards I would criticize him but obviously he is getting closer.

Originally Posted by boldruler

I would give him mine if I had a great 2yr old. I would also look at Tagg and Matz. The fact is Pletcher ran second this year, the horse that beat him was a great horse. Barbaro's performance was one of the best in the history of the race. If Pletcher was going backwards I would criticize him but obviously he is getting closer.

His work with colts in the past couple of years has definitely been improving. Some day he'll probably get there ... and train one or more colts to be consistent winners at classic distances .... so let's hold the goo-gooing until he does ... then go as ga-ga as we choose to.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

His work with colts in the past couple of years has definitely been improving. Some day he'll probably get there ... and train one or more colts to be consistent winners at classic distances .... so let's hold the goo-gooing until he does ... then go as ga-ga as we choose to.

I guess in the meantime another probable Eclipse Award as well as being leading money winning trainer will need to suffice. YTD money won:

Pletcher: $11 Million +
Servis: huh?

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Hey ... look what the cat just dragged in!

Welcome back, oh mighty one!

Yeah ... he's a terrific trainer ... that's indisputable ... but you better than anyone else should know that training a colt to consistently win G1 races at classic distances isn't something that just falls into your lap. Anyone who does it deserves a lot of credit for achieving it ... even if it only happens once.

But Pletcher hasn't done it ... not even once ... despite enormous opportunites to do so. I don't claim to understand why he hasn't ... I just report the facts, ma'am.

And I'll compare another filly to Affectionately when that filly wins a graded stakes race carrying 137 pounds. That boils it down to Ta Wee ... and I'm not holding my breath until another one like them comes along.

enoromuos opportunities.. yes.. based on the number of runners he's sent to TC races.. but really, how many of those runners.. especially Derby runners, really were legit contenders in the big dance?

[Cajungator26]

I'll bet that Pletcher wins a triple crown race next year.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I'll bet that Pletcher wins a triple crown race next year.

No doubt it will eventually happen.. and when it does, he could win 'em in bunches!!

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Pletcher is the best trainer in the country as of right now that has a large operation. The thing that I love about Pletcher is that he picks the best spots possible for his horses, rests them win they need to rest, and runs them when they are ready to run. I think Tagg and Matz are right there with him as far as horsemanship goes. I really like Bob Baffert and Nick Zito as trainers too, but they aren't even in the same league as Pletcher as of right now when it comes to producing stakes winners. Pletcher is just turning them out one after another. Also, you are kidding yourself if you think that Lukas is a better trainer than Pletcher as of right now.

By the way...

2005 BC Classic-2nd Flower Alley
2006 KY Derby-2nd Bluegrass Cat
2006 Belmont-2nd Bluegrass Cat...3rd Sunriver

I agree with Cajun...I bet Pletcher wins a big race within the next year.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Pletcher is the best trainer in the country as of right now that has a large operation. The thing that I love about Pletcher is that he picks the best spots possible for his horses, rests them win they need to rest, and runs them when they are ready to run. I think Tagg and Matz are right there with him as far as horsemanship goes. I really like Bob Baffert and Nick Zito as trainers too, but they aren't even in the same league as Pletcher as of right now when it comes to producing stakes winners. Pletcher is just turning them out one after another. Also, you are kidding yourself if you think that Lukas is a better trainer than Pletcher as of right now.

By the way...

2005 BC Classic-2nd Flower Alley
2006 KY Derby-2nd Bluegrass Cat
2006 Belmont-2nd Bluegrass Cat...3rd Sunriver

I agree with Cajun...I bet Pletcher wins a big race within the next year.

I think Baffert is actually doing a little better than Pletcher this year. Pletcher has earned 2x as much but has sent out nearly 3x as many starters. Pletcher is the best at finding spots for his horses though. His job with Keyed Entry though has made me scratch my head a few times.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by boldruler

I think Baffert is actually doing a little better than Pletcher this year. Pletcher has earned 2x as much but has sent out nearly 3x as many starters. Pletcher is the best at finding spots for his horses though. His job with Keyed Entry though has made me scratch my head a few times.

Yeah, but I knew that KE would have been screwed up like Spanish Chestnut was after running in a route that was way beyond his distance limitations. What the owners of both of these horses were thinking when they decided to run nice sprinters/milers in the Derby, I don't know? Now, Pletcher has to figure out what to do with this horse that he knows is screwed up. The horse was very rank at the beginning of the Dwyer, and just couldn't last. I think Pletcher definitely needs to put the horse back in sprints, which is probably what he wants to do only the owners are most likely getting in the way.

You're right about Baffert. He is doing well this year, but I think Pletcher is doing better.

[ArlJim78]

I have a feeling that once Pletcher gets things dialed in on TC side for the colts, he is going to go on a run and win a bunch of these races in the coming years.

Sometimes I think that it might actually be the size of his empire that gets in his way and prevents him from focusing in on a select few of the more promising individuals. When a Tagg or a Servis get a TC candidate it really becomes the main focal point and therefore as a result of all this attention on specific horses they have so far had more success. I think I remember that Servis spent the whole winter down at Oaklawn with Smarty, something that I'm guessing he has never done before.

I don't know... just a theory. But my main point is that I think Todd is bright enough that he will get it figured out and when he does, with the talent pool that he has to work with, he is going to win several classic's, imo.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I have a feeling that once Pletcher gets things dialed in on TC side for the colts, he is going to go on a run and win a bunch of these races in the coming years.

Sometimes I think that it might actually be the size of his empire that gets in his way and prevents him from focusing in on a select few of the more promising individuals. When a Tagg or a Servis get a TC candidate it really becomes the main focal point and therefore as a result of all this attention on specific horses they have so far had more success. I think I remember that Servis spent the whole winter down at Oaklawn with Smarty, something that I'm guessing he has never done before.

I don't know... just a theory. But my main point is that I think Todd is bright enough that he will get it figured out and when he does, with the talent pool that he has to work with, he is going to win several classic's, imo.

you are correct about servis, he mapped out his course for smarty that winter, sat his family down and talked it over with them, and came to arkansas. since then he's actually bought a place here--altho with some of his recent successes, he's had some downs. most notably with rick porter pulling his horses--losing round pond had to hurt! servis has the talent, but he's put his family first--which is admirable in this day and age. certainly something you can't say about some trainers--you know, like those who decide to 'trade up'. i won't mention any names.....

[bogeydaman]

Not sure why there is such amazement with Pletcher's early success with 2 year olds this year. This happens EVERY year (maybe to a lesser extent). He always has 50 or so amazing maiden breakers / allowance winners every year between the Belmont (both), Saratoga, and Gulfstream Park meets and 90% of them appear to be the next superhorse.

He is a tremendous trainer in getting young fast horses to the gate and run fast (typically in sprints).

My concern, if I was going to give him my horse, is that it appears to me (compared to other top trainers) that a small % (not number, but %) of these emergenging superstars "turn the corner". Most of them are done by the fall of their 3 year old careers.

For every Ashado, More than Ready, Flower Alley English Channel, etc there are 50 Confederations, Indy Dancer, Heckle, etc whose first couple races are their best in the carrers.

I agree he will one / many of the classics soon. You throw enough darts against the board eventually you will hit a bulls eye. Just in sheer numbers it would seem impossible for it to not happen.