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  #21  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:59 PM
parsixfarms parsixfarms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
The issue is what regulatory world does the controlling business have to exist in? Once that is determined you can develop a business model. If the rules are always changing its tough to get serious talent involved
Based on what's going on here in Albany, I think it's fair to say that the regulatory world in which NY racing is going to operate is not going to change anytime soon - which means that a broken model in which the state grabs too much $$ and the OTBs are essentially preferred (no production cost) competitors of the tracks will remain unfixed. I'm surprised that you recognize the importance of the racing model but seemingly put blinders on when it comes to recognizing that the broken model is why NYRA has been losing money over the past few years.
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
Based on what's going on here in Albany, I think it's fair to say that the regulatory world in which NY racing is going to operate is not going to change anytime soon - which means that a broken in which the state grabs too much $$ and the OTBs are essentially preferred (no production cost) competitors of the tracks will remain unfixed. I'm surprised that you recognize the importance of the racing but seemingly put blinders on when it comes to recognizing that the broken is why NYRA has been losing money over the past few years.

Well why is NYRA fighting so hard for a business and that is impossible to make work? Give it up. This is all about money and people at NYRA and in the government love the status quo. They are all making money and taking care of their friends at the taxpayers expense.
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:25 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
Based on what's going on here in Albany, I think it's fair to say that the regulatory world in which NY racing is going to operate is not going to change anytime soon - which means that a broken model in which the state grabs too much $$ and the OTBs are essentially preferred (no production cost) competitors of the tracks will remain unfixed. I'm surprised that you recognize the importance of the racing model but seemingly put blinders on when it comes to recognizing that the broken model is why NYRA has been losing money over the past few years.
NYRA is broke isn't getting slot money anytime soon and should be put down
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  #24  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:30 PM
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viscount26 viscount26 is offline
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[quote=DaHoss9698]It's quite a meeting of the minds when Freddy and Benevolous get together.

Ror








Thud
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:46 PM
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Hickory Hill Hoff Hickory Hill Hoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
Just for curiosity's sake, if you do not want NYRA to run racing in NYRA, who is your preferred alternative?
I guess our friends both "Freddy Mo" & "Benevolus" can't answer this!
I said it once and I'll say it again; The on-track race product that NYRA puts forth is the best anywhere. All others interested in the franchise are ONLY interested in the slots side...our friends above must not be true fans of thoroughbred racing or they would see this. What do the others know about running thoroughbred racing.....PLEASE ANSWER ME THIS, NYRA DETRACTORS!
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  #26  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
I guess our friends both "Freddy Mo" & "Benevolus" can't answer this!
I said it once and I'll say it again; The on-track race product that NYRA puts forth is the best anywhere. All others interested in the franchise are ONLY interested in the slots side...our friends above must not be true fans of thoroughbred racing or they would see this. What do the others know about running thoroughbred racing.....PLEASE ANSWER ME THIS, NYRA DETRACTORS!
That's the problem. Without the Saratoga meet included, the product has been mediocre at best.
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:55 PM
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Hickory Hill Hoff Hickory Hill Hoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillow Pants
That's the problem. Without the Saratoga meet included, the product has been mediocre at best.
But, other than Churchill or Keeneland....where's it been better?
The day to - day meets in California & Florida suck, it's only good on weekends and stake days there.
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  #28  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:55 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
It's quite a meeting of the minds when Freddy and Benevolous get together.













Not really.
i just have to try to remember in future that what cannon does is 'trainering'.
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2007, 04:56 PM
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SentToStud SentToStud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
I guess our friends both "Freddy Mo" & "Benevolus" can't answer this!
I said it once and I'll say it again; The on-track race product that NYRA puts forth is the best anywhere. All others interested in the franchise are ONLY interested in the slots side...our friends above must not be true fans of thoroughbred racing or they would see this. What do the others know about running thoroughbred racing.....PLEASE ANSWER ME THIS, NYRA DETRACTORS!
I think Kirkorian's group would have been a good choice. And in addition to running the slots, the racing side (NYRA or whomever) would have benefited from having a successful gaming executive from outside the NYRA 'family' running racing, or at least having a significant presence on the financial oversight side.

These top gaming firms (Kirkorian/MGM and Wynn, etc) are arguably far more astute and vigorous at financial management than anyone NYRA has ever had in place.

That's the difference between a non-profit and firms like Wynn/MGM. They know how to make money and are VERY good at watching the store.

The kind of thing that happened a few years ago when NYRA non-bid a 900k contract (against their own regs) for services provided by a relative of a key NYRA exec simply would not happen with more qualified management.

Does that help?
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  #30  
Old 10-15-2007, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
But, other than Churchill or Keeneland....where's it been better?
The day to - day meets in California & Florida suck, it's only good on weekends and stake days there.
The product is too diluted. Too many tracks and too many unbettable races just to fill the standard 9 or 10 race card.

I'd like to see a 3 or 4 day race week with 6 races on the weekdays and maybe 8 races at most on the weekend for each track. There simply aren't enough quality horses to warrant 9 or 10 races a day. Because of this ridiculous industry standard we have practically been assaulted with turf sprint after turf sprint after turf sprint. ENOUGH!! It's madness!!
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  #31  
Old 10-15-2007, 05:12 PM
parsixfarms parsixfarms is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SentToStud
The kind of thing that happened a few years ago when NYRA non-bid a 900k contract (against their own regs) for services provided by a relative of a key NYRA exec simply would not happen with more qualified management.
I actually believe that there's some merit to a lot of what is in your post about the value of some outside "fresh" minds getting involved in the business side of things, but let's not kid ourselves, "sweetheart deals" occur in the private sector as well.
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  #32  
Old 10-15-2007, 06:11 PM
sumitas sumitas is offline
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This conservative chest thumping is all politics and no reality. In reality, the for profit tracks put as little as possible into the racing side of the business. Track conditions are inferior unless mandated by a state like Cali, for example. A for profit would damage horse racing in NY State by taking profits at the expense of the horse racing industry. Now the casino side I can see a for profit model I suppose. But definately not horse racing and the Albany Republicans should be ashamed of themselves for their unbridled greed.
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  #33  
Old 10-15-2007, 09:16 PM
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SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benevolus
NYRA can run it. Just 5 years at a time. You give anyone 30 years and by year 3 the corruption will set it. Why do you think we elect a president every 4 years, not 30 years. There has to be some accountability and NYRA wants no part of being accountable. They just want jobs for friends and to have their own little playground. No gambling entity should be non-profit though. What will happen is they will always find a way to spend any excess dollars, and usually on contracts for their friends.
Right about now,I sure wish we elected a President every 3 years.....It will soon be announced that Turkey owns NYRA,and any mouthing off about it will not be tolerated by these hardballers.What was the Met Mile is now to be called The Ataturk Mile.The Belmont is now going to be called the Ankara Derby.

Last edited by SCUDSBROTHER : 10-15-2007 at 09:30 PM.
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  #34  
Old 10-16-2007, 01:25 AM
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theiman theiman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
I guess our friends both "Freddy Mo" & "Benevolus" can't answer this!
I said it once and I'll say it again; The on-track race product that NYRA puts forth is the best anywhere. All others interested in the franchise are ONLY interested in the slots side...our friends above must not be true fans of thoroughbred racing or they would see this. What do the others know about running thoroughbred racing.....PLEASE ANSWER ME THIS, NYRA DETRACTORS!
Keeneland puts on a better product than NYRA

Keeneland doesnt have to deal with 6.5 months of something called The Big A.

Belmont is a ghost town and with the exception of a triple crown contender and the year it has the BC (or has a good giveaway) it has nobody but a handul of regulars(5-6K) who attend.

NYRA cant run the races at a profit have shown corruption and bankruptcy in its past. NYRA hasn't improved in the past few years, Saratoga has improved by use of good promotions and top quality racing and it being a destination vacation attraction.

I have never seen so many people in fear that if someone else takes over the NY tracks that Saratoga will be ruined.

I would also take Santa Anita for its 4 month meet over anything NYRA offers except Saratoga. However, since it doesnt have to run against Saratoga, It makes it much more appealing for 4 months of good racing vs 6 weeks.

Because nobody would want the NY tracks without slots is a true reflection that NY racing is not a profitable investment and is "not the best racing product anywhere" and it would be nuts to bid on it unless the slots were there. That doesnt mean NYRA should get it by default.

We are all true fans of T-Bred racing, but some of us are realistic in seeing that ineptitude, corruption, neglect of facilities, corporate nepotism, and bankruptcy should not be rewarded and definetly not for 30 years.
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  #35  
Old 10-16-2007, 09:23 AM
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paisjpq paisjpq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theiman
Keeneland puts on a better product than NYRA

Keeneland doesnt have to deal with 6.5 months of something called The Big A.

Belmont is a ghost town and with the exception of a triple crown contender and the year it has the BC (or has a good giveaway) it has nobody but a handul of regulars(5-6K) who attend.

NYRA cant run the races at a profit have shown corruption and bankruptcy in its past. NYRA hasn't improved in the past few years, Saratoga has improved by use of good promotions and top quality racing and it being a destination vacation attraction.

I have never seen so many people in fear that if someone else takes over the NY tracks that Saratoga will be ruined.

I would also take Santa Anita for its 4 month meet over anything NYRA offers except Saratoga. However, since it doesnt have to run against Saratoga, It makes it much more appealing for 4 months of good racing vs 6 weeks.

Because nobody would want the NY tracks without slots is a true reflection that NY racing is not a profitable investment and is "not the best racing product anywhere" and it would be nuts to bid on it unless the slots were there. That doesnt mean NYRA should get it by default.

We are all true fans of T-Bred racing, but some of us are realistic in seeing that ineptitude, corruption, neglect of facilities, corporate nepotism, and bankruptcy should not be rewarded and definetly not for 30 years.

I love Keeneland but what they do there can never be compared to racing in "the real world"....they run about 32 dates per calendar year....they are heavily supported by the local horse industry....they are awash in money from the sales which, if added up take more days than the racing...not to mention they are profiting from polytrack sales...if they had to run races every day of the year the picture would no doubt be different....and if you GO to the races you can easily see that all is NOT well in the way that they take care of some things there.
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  #36  
Old 10-16-2007, 09:53 AM
NTamm1215 NTamm1215 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theiman
Keeneland puts on a better product than NYRA
Keeneland, while it runs for 32 days per year, does not put on a better product than Saratoga. Not in any way, shape or form. Saratoga's allowance races are much stronger. Saratoga has a more expanded stakes schedule.

I was on top of every card at the spring Keeneland meet, then Saratoga, and now the fall at Keeneland. There's really no way you can say Keeneland's racing product is better. I know the NY-bred argument will come up, but remember that California has the same issue and sometimes the state breds can offer full, competitive fields that are great in terms of betting.

NT
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  #37  
Old 10-16-2007, 10:36 AM
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Pedigree Ann Pedigree Ann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
But, other than Churchill or Keeneland....where's it been better?
The day to - day meets in California & Florida suck, it's only good on weekends and stake days there.
Keeneland is run by a nonprofit organization of local breedes that spends what would be its profit on facilities for fans and horsemen as well as charitable donations.
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  #38  
Old 10-16-2007, 10:36 AM
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theiman theiman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NTamm1215
Keeneland, while it runs for 32 days per year, does not put on a better product than Saratoga. Not in any way, shape or form. Saratoga's allowance races are much stronger. Saratoga has a more expanded stakes schedule.

I was on top of every card at the spring Keeneland meet, then Saratoga, and now the fall at Keeneland. There's really no way you can say Keeneland's racing product is better. I know the NY-bred argument will come up, but remember that California has the same issue and sometimes the state breds can offer full, competitive fields that are great in terms of betting.

NT
I didnt say Keeneland puts on a better product than Saratoga. I said it puts on a better product than NYRA. There is no meet in N. America that is better than Saratoga for quality of racing. But what about the other 46 weeks of the year.

If someone asked me which would I rather own, the Keeneland meets or NYRA, I would say Keeneland. I am not talking about sales either, just racing. I have been to Keeneland and it by far and away the best fan friendly and customer service friendly track I have ever been too. The racing quality if not at Saratoga level is almost as good. Any wonder why most of the top jocks leave NY and other areas for Keeneland, better races and purses.

The other 46 weeks of the year at NYRA is not much to look at. I have seen similar small fields that other venues have had problems with, poor track conditions and cancelled days at Aqueduct. Cancelled races at Belmont too.

If NYRA does keep the racing I wont mind as when I come back to Belmont each spring I enjoy the open space and ample room the backyard offers with nobody there.

Does anyone think that if NYRA still had the contract for about 10 more years they would make any effort to improve conditions at Big A or Belmont backstretch areas? ---I doubt it. More likely status quo, open the doors, take in the money and close the doors at the end of the day. Better yet, if anyone had a business they owned, would they want it to be run by NYRA's management?



As to the comment by paisjpq

and if you GO to the races you can easily see that all is NOT well in the way that they take care of some things there.

I am not sure what you are talking about? I have been to Keeneland, not this meet, and it is still the best place for an entertaining day at the races with a top quality product
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  #39  
Old 10-16-2007, 10:48 AM
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paisjpq paisjpq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theiman
As to the comment by paisjpq

and if you GO to the races you can easily see that all is NOT well in the way that they take care of some things there.

I am not sure what you are talking about? I have been to Keeneland, not this meet, and it is still the best place for an entertaining day at the races with a top quality product

IMO they have a very poor response time when anything goes wrong with a horse....During the spring meet I sat in the clubhouse and watched a fallen jockey hold his broken down horse for more than 5 minutes with NO help even on the way it wasn't until the horse collapsed on the track and the entire grandstand gasped that there was any reaction from the track staff...
same goes for the human ambulance....first day of this meet the jocks lay on the track for a long time before the ambulance got to them....
and then there was Dream of angels....it took a ridiculous amount of time for Keeneland to find a screen to shield that poor horse as it lay bleeding to death in the paddock...then Teuflesberg managed to break away from the handlers while they again waited for the ambulance...
Say what you want about NYRA, I think they do a better job when accidents occur.
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  #40  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:07 AM
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Sightseek Sightseek is offline
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The Senate is releasing their plan right now (11 am) at the state capital...
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