Yet Another Who, Apparently, Had Done Enough - Page 2

saratoga guy · #21 11-12-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

You're telling me there's not a 'going once, going twice..' where they could've just gone 'oy! tryin' to put in a bid here!' I mean there's a time for subtle strategy but geez.

As I understand it, they thought they had the high bid. So when it was "Going once, going twice..." they thought they were sitting pretty with the highest bid.

blackthroatedwind · #22 11-12-2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Wasn't she the one who caused that bidding snafu with Coolmore? They tried to put more down and the guy "didn't see them"...which is weird. I mean surely you're trying to get as much as possible. You're telling me there's not a 'going once, going twice..' where they could've just gone 'oy! tryin' to put in a bid here!' I mean there's a time for subtle strategy but geez.

I wonder what Coolmore would've done with her.

That's partially correct.

There was a third bidder who had the bid before $4 million. Apparantly both the Sheik and Coolmore made ( or believe they made ) the next bid of $4 million. Only the Sheik's bid was recognized. However, both thought they had bought her, which is why Coolmore didn't make a new bid. Unfortunately this wasn't discovered until Coolmore ( as well as the Sheik ) went to pay for her.

The biggest loser was the owner, as surely the bidding would have gone higher, with probably the Sheik being the likeliest winner as he saved money when you consider they pretty much always win. Of course one could argue that racing fans were a big loser as well, along with Todd Pletcher, as if Coolmore had bought her she wouldn't have been retired and he would have continued to train her.

VOL JACK · #23 11-12-2007, 11:48 PM

I love these "sporting" fckers!! they spend millions buying RACEhorses so they can hurry up and retire them. Then breed superior horses so they can hurry up and retire them. When is enough going to be enough? When they have 300 stallions?

All we hear is how great they've been for the game. BS!!!!

Riot · #24 11-13-2007, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Wasn't she the one who caused that bidding snafu with Coolmore? They tried to put more down and the guy "didn't see them"...which is weird.

I too have a hard time believing a bid spotter isn't watching Coolmore closely. Agree that story is indeed too weird.

This past weekend I was watching the Coolmore crew bidding from inside the auditorium. The guy sat there, hands folded together, leaning his chin on his hands, and his bid signal was fluttering his index finger rapidly about 5 times.

I mean, it wasn't as subtle as say, Chuck Simon, who sits perfectly still, staring straight ahead, and gravely gives a subtle nod to increase his bid

There was also a pretty funny "escape" this past week - bids went up fast, horse was about to be hammered down for $50K, then three people got up and walked really, really fast out of the auditorium, and right out the front door

Their bid spotter followed them, but apparently couldn't catch 'em. They reopened the bidding at $10K, horse sold for like $20K.

Good sport to watch. No Lundy sightings.

Riot · #25 11-13-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Unfortunately this wasn't discovered until Coolmore ( as well as the Sheik ) went to pay for her.

Cot Campbell wrote in one of his books about being the final bidder on a horse, signing and getting the receipt, and then having the auction house (forget if Keeneland or FS) immediately reopening the bidding as the Sheik's crew missed that the horse was in the ring, and they had wanted to bid on it.

ddthetide · #26 11-13-2007, 06:41 AM

will they keep octave in this country or send her overseas?

NoChanceToDance · #27 11-13-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I love these "sporting" fckers!! they spend millions buying RACEhorses so they can hurry up and retire them. Then breed superior horses so they can hurry up and retire them. When is enough going to be enough? When they have 300 stallions?

All we hear is how great they've been for the game. BS!!!!

It's very true. The sheikhs (especially) have done very little for this sport for the racing fan.

They buy everyone elses stock and usually they either injure them (if they have bought them to race) or just retire them straight away.

It has been a complete joke over here in the last five years and now they are start starting to realise that they can do it for less in America. I hate to say it, but it's going to get worse for you guys in the next few years. They are desperate to become the biggest racing and breeding operation in America and while they have that plan in their mind, all they are thinking is "buy buy buy buy buy buy buy" It is never ending.

They are eliminating competition, which will ruin the 'sport' in the end.

freddymo · #28 11-13-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

It's very true. The sheikhs (especially) have done very little for this sport for the racing fan.

They buy everyone elses stock and usually they either injure them (if they have bought them to race) or just retire them straight away.

It has been a complete joke over here in the last five years and now they are start starting to realise that they can do it for less in America. I hate to say it, but it's going to get worse for you guys in the next few years. They are desperate to become the biggest racing and breeding operation in America and while they have that plan in their mind, all they are thinking is "buy buy buy buy buy buy buy" It is never ending.

They are eliminating competition, which will ruin the 'sport' in the end.

Eventually they will not be interested in maintaining 2000 head for racing and breeding. It will come to an end in time.

Wouldn't it be nice to sell them your 100k purchase for 8 mil?

SniperSB23 · #29 11-14-2007, 02:53 PM

Sheikh Hamdan really needs to turn on Sheikh Mo one of these days and start bidding against him to actually keep the horses in training.

King Glorious · #30 11-15-2007, 03:07 AM

Can anyone tell me what were the reasons to continue racing her? Don't get me wrong though. I'd rather see them continue on than retire too but honestly, there is no more reason to continue racing her is there? We see many cases where the connections say, especially with females, that they are just looking to get some black type and the ultimate would be a grade one win. Well, she's got a couple of grade one wins and she's proven herself among the best of her generation. For a female that you are looking at as a broodmare prospect, what else is there to prove? Historically speaking, the most successful racing mares are not the ones that go on to be the most successful broodmares. I think it's because of all of the stresses and drugs that come with racing. Look at a list of the top 10 horses in each division this year and tell me how many come from mares that were grade one winners. And it should be noted that the main purpose of the entire Darley operation is breeding, not racing.

For the fans, there are reasons we would want her to continue. For the new owners, there are none.

miraja2 · #31 11-15-2007, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Can anyone tell me what were the reasons to continue racing her? Don't get me wrong though. I'd rather see them continue on than retire too but honestly, there is no more reason to continue racing her is there? We see many cases where the connections say, especially with females, that they are just looking to get some black type and the ultimate would be a grade one win. Well, she's got a couple of grade one wins and she's proven herself among the best of her generation. For a female that you are looking at as a broodmare prospect, what else is there to prove? Historically speaking, the most successful racing mares are not the ones that go on to be the most successful broodmares. I think it's because of all of the stresses and drugs that come with racing. Look at a list of the top 10 horses in each division this year and tell me how many come from mares that were grade one winners. And it should be noted that the main purpose of the entire Darley operation is breeding, not racing.

For the fans, there are reasons we would want her to continue. For the new owners, there are none.

The only reason I could think of would be if the people that made these decisions actually liked the sport of horse racing.
I guess in some ways you might be right. These days it is probably crazy to think that owners should actually like participating in the sport. I think this whole sport got started with two guys saying to each other, "my horse is faster than your horse." Somehow, that has a better ring to it than the current, "I can find a soft G1 race for my horse, win it, and retire the thing while your stupid animal will still have to race!"
There was "no reason" to run Personal Ensign as a 4yo after she won G1s at ages 2 and 3, but her connections decided to do it anyway. I guess some people actually did like the sport of horse racing once upon a time. The folks at Darley clearly do not.

King Glorious · #32 11-15-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

The only reason I could think of would be if the people that made these decisions actually liked the sport of horse racing.
I guess in some ways you might be right. These days it is probably crazy to think that owners should actually like participating in the sport. I think this whole sport got started with two guys saying to each other, "my horse is faster than your horse." Somehow, that has a better ring to it than the current, "I can find a soft G1 race for my horse, win it, and retire the thing while your stupid animal will still have to race!"
There was "no reason" to run Personal Ensign as a 4yo after she won G1s at ages 2 and 3, but her connections decided to do it anyway. I guess some people actually did like the sport of horse racing once upon a time. The folks at Darley clearly do not.

I wish they cared more about the racing side of things. I wish all owners were in it more for racing than anything else. As I said, I'm disappointed that things are the way they are and long for the days when it was nearly automatic that a top 3yo would be brought back to race as a 4yo and even beyond. I think that the sport was so much better then, even 10 years ago. But at the same time, I understand (and I know you do as well so I'm not implying that you don't get it) that there is another side to the sport than just the racing and I understand that for some operations, Darley and Coolmore probably being the most prominent, the breeding side of the game is more important. I guess I just don't get as outraged when these things happen because I've come to expect it and I know that if the breeding side weren't a part of the game, they might not be involved. I hear a lot of people say that they think Coolmore and especially Darley aren't good for the game. I think they are very good and that the overall game would be very different if they weren't involved.

freddymo · #33 11-15-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Can anyone tell me what were the reasons to continue racing her? Don't get me wrong though. I'd rather see them continue on than retire too but honestly, there is no more reason to continue racing her is there? We see many cases where the connections say, especially with females, that they are just looking to get some black type and the ultimate would be a grade one win. Well, she's got a couple of grade one wins and she's proven herself among the best of her generation. For a female that you are looking at as a broodmare prospect, what else is there to prove? Historically speaking, the most successful racing mares are not the ones that go on to be the most successful broodmares. I think it's because of all of the stresses and drugs that come with racing. Look at a list of the top 10 horses in each division this year and tell me how many come from mares that were grade one winners. And it should be noted that the main purpose of the entire Darley operation is breeding, not racing.

For the fans, there are reasons we would want her to continue. For the new owners, there are none.

Plenty of examples of great producers that were awesome race mares and plenty that were awesome mares and never tossed a winner.. Not sure you should stereotype great race mares as suspect producers.

No reason to bred a 4 year old mare who can still run. Assuming the filly is sound she could further distinguish herself maybe win BC race. You still breed horses to race not breed. The shieks sponsor the WTB Championship to race horses not watch them breed. I suggest they like racing horses and just feel its time to control the breeding industry. Who knows who cares. Juddmonte still looks better to me.

Danzig · #34 11-15-2007, 06:39 PM

the breeding has taken over, and not for the good of the game. and if those two weren't involved, and breeding wasn't such a focus, i doubt it would be a bad thing.

Pedigree Ann · #35 11-16-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I wish they cared more about the racing side of things. I wish all owners were in it more for racing than anything else. As I said, I'm disappointed that things are the way they are and long for the days when it was nearly automatic that a top 3yo would be brought back to race as a 4yo and even beyond. I think that the sport was so much better then, even 10 years ago. .

Germany still breeds to race, rather than the other way around. A large number of the classic winners in Aus/Nz were geldings in the past, so they have the habit of racing them on, viz Lonhro, Octagonal, and Elvstroem.