Another NY trainer caught.... - Page 2

trifecta124 · #21 11-12-2007, 09:48 PM

It was 4 years ago and never confirmed.....I think we should give it a rest.

Rudeboyelvis · #22 11-12-2007, 09:51 PM

As ELA very eloquently pointed out in a similar thread, there is a decernable difference between administring drugs specifically to enhance a horse's performance, and the more routine incidental overages of legal medications.

Neither should be tolerated - the difference here is that the latter can be chalked up to human error; but to purposely shove a tube through horse's nostril in order to pump Bromo Seltzer into it's stomach is indefensable. No way around it. Don Rice made a living out of it in Tampa (leading trainer in 7 of 9 years from 94'-95 thru 02'03) until everyone had enough of his sh!t and was run out of town on a rail

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/07/Sp...ns_suspe.shtml

I don't know if Sicacca had anything, personally, to do with this - given his record, I'd say abusing drugs to win is not his problem. But if the horse in question is under his care, he is responsible.

And certainly begs the question about the completely remarkable turnaround of horses like Tobruk - a 13 time beaten maiden who couldn't get out of his own way until 9/1 at the SPA, when he went off at 12-1 m/l to break, and has 2 back to back place efforts against winners since.

I'm sure I'm not the first to notice

Scav · #23 11-12-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trifecta124

It was 4 years ago and never confirmed.....I think we should give it a rest.

Exactly.

#24 11-12-2007, 10:12 PM

This is bush league on Grening's part...

"Since the incident, McGuire has suffered a stroke that has left him incapacitated."

Why is this info relevant? He's basically implying that the investigation is the cause of the stroke. If it isn't...why share this info? And aren't there HIPPA laws to protect McGuire's medical info? I'm assuming he disclosed this info to Grening. Terrible.

Storm Cadet · #25 11-12-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Both of you are incorrect. The training will be taken over by Grits. Get it right.

Be nice now Gator!

Cajungator26 · #26 11-12-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Be nice now Gator!

That was nice.

RolloTomasi · #27 11-12-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

This is bush league on Grening's part...

"Since the incident, McGuire has suffered a stroke that has left him incapacitated."

Why is this info relevant? He's basically implying that the investigation is the cause of the stroke.

Maybe he was implying divine retribution.

Don't jump to conclusions.

wigmore · #28 11-13-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yes.. It's not as if this some revelation that just occured. It's been hanging around endlessly without resolution until now.

Are these assistants still in the employ of Sciacca? It certainly sounds like it from the DRF story.

sounds like you are implying that they acted without his knowledge while he was on vacvation and if thats the case why didnt he fire them?
and if you are implying also that maybe there were in a stall not his he still should have fired them if they were caught admistering illegal substances..

I would also love to know why the suspensions were increased from there original lenght..

Kasept · #29 11-13-2007, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wigmore

Are these assistants still in the employ of Sciacca? It certainly sounds like it from the DRF story.

sounds like you are implying that they acted without his knowledge while he was on vacvation and if thats the case why didnt he fire them?
and if you are implying also that maybe there were in a stall not his he still should have fired them if they were caught admistering illegal substances..

I would also love to know why the suspensions were increased from there original lenght..

Paul Barone has been with Gary, except for a short period, for years. Gary certainly takes responsibility whether he was on vacation or not. What they were contending was the circumstances and what horse was being worked on.. The penalties were increased undoubtedly because parameters for the offense increased since the time it happened.

The Bid · #30 11-13-2007, 07:51 AM

No assistant jumps in a stall and milkshakes a horse without the bosses orders.

stonegossard · #31 11-13-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trifecta124

It was 4 years ago and never confirmed.....I think we should give it a rest.

So you think trainers milkshaking horses isnt a big deal? The guy's outfit CHEATED. It's bs like this that is killing the game. 120 days was light....regardless of if he knew, he should have gotten a hell of a lot more than 4 mos. It's a total cop out that these guys say "I was on vacation...I wasnt there". They are responsible for the guys who work under them. If not they could drug the hell outta horses and play the dumb/I didnt know card if they got caught all the time.

paisjpq · #32 11-13-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Gary fought this for the 4+ years given that the investigator changed testimony at least three times about what he saw or thought he saw and what stall Barone, the vet and groom were in at the time. Gary was on vacation.

unless a horse has colic or is being oiled for shipping (both of which would be easy to produce a vet report on to clear one's name) then there is NO reason to tube a horse...and it isn't easy for a person (even a layman) to misinterpret....confusion about which stall or even which horse doesn't mean he didn't see what he says he saw...and I like I said if they were treating a sick horse or preparing a horse to ship it is easily cleared up...the fact that they can't speaks volumes.

Cannon Shell · #33 11-13-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

unless a horse has colic or is being oiled for shipping (both of which would be easy to produce a vet report on to clear one's name) then there is NO reason to tube a horse...and it isn't easy for a person (even a layman) to misinterpret....confusion about which stall or even which horse doesn't mean he didn't see what he says he saw...and I like I said if they were treating a sick horse or preparing a horse to ship it is easily cleared up...the fact that they can't speaks volumes.

Not that it applies in this case but not that long ago horses were tubed for worming. We still tube really dehydrated horses with electrolytes in the summer. While giving a milkshake is against the rules it does not in any way harm the horse. That is a fallacy.

Interesting fact- Dr. Mcguire worked as a examining (state/NYRA) vet for a time.

paisjpq · #34 11-13-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not that it applies in this case but not that long ago horses were tubed for worming. We still tube really dehydrated horses with electrolytes in the summer. While giving a milkshake is against the rules it does not in any way harm the horse. That is a fallacy.

Interesting fact- Dr. Mcguire worked as a examining (state/NYRA) vet for a time.

but like you said horses haven't been tubed for worming in years...

and if they were giving electrolytes they could have easily had that documented as well...

and I never said it harmed the horse....but it harms the betting public.

Kasept · #35 11-13-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonegossard

So you think trainers milkshaking horses isnt a big deal? The guy's outfit CHEATED. It's bs like this that is killing the game. 120 days was light....regardless of if he knew, he should have gotten a hell of a lot more than 4 mos. It's a total cop out that these guys say "I was on vacation...I wasnt there". They are responsible for the guys who work under them. If not they could drug the hell outta horses and play the dumb/I didnt know card if they got caught all the time.

The argument that Sciacca and Barone have had was that the horse in question was not the horse that they were cited for working on. Gary never argued that the situation wasn't his responsibility.

Danzig · #36 11-13-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

No assistant jumps in a stall and milkshakes a horse without the bosses orders.

how do you know that?
my boss is on vacation. you think he knows everything i do (like sitting here typing on a message board) while he's gone?

wigmore · #37 11-13-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The argument that Sciacca and Barone have had was that the horse in question was not the horse that they were cited for working on. Gary never argued that the situation wasn't his responsibility.

Still they were Milkshaking a horse right?

They were caught right?

And they are still wortking for Sciacca 4 years later. What does that say about Sciacca?

Riot · #38 11-13-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wigmore

Still they were Milkshaking a horse right?

They were caught right?

And they are still wortking for Sciacca 4 years later. What does that say about Sciacca?

The barn maintained publically at the time that the horse that was to receive the tubed electrolytes was a horse that had raced the previous day. That's not an uncommon practice to replace electrolytes in a horse that needs them post-race.

Danzig · #39 11-13-2007, 12:42 PM

'allegedly witnessed'.

hell, if someone who knew nothing about horses and their care saw riot with her arm...well, you know--they might call the cops to report abuse of a horse.

TheSpyder · #40 11-13-2007, 12:49 PM

Danzig,

This is your boss..get back to work. I'm watching you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

how do you know that?
my boss is on vacation. you think he knows everything i do (like sitting here typing on a message board) while he's gone?