Say What?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They should do like the Padres do,and atleast try to get value for their money(except for that retarded signing for 15 mil a couple years ago...Korean Pitcher ....so mediocre...and then bled on them.)

THE PADRES ARENT WINNERS!!!!!!!

Chan Ho Park

He bled runs too

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Nobody does that when they come to LA........Forget that.If he hits 30 it's a miracle.Guys don't do **** when they come here.This is also why 16 mil is way too much.Guys don't perform offensively here.WTF you think we liked Beltre so much for? He actually hit for us that year.We never get that here.They shut it down when that uni goes on.

They aint lowering ticket prices anytime soon. Let them spend the money. They have plenty.

Playing in the West and having to play a lot of games in pitchers parks like SF,SD and at home may keep him from 40 but he is a legit player who makes the team better. Pierre on the other hand....

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

THE PADRES ARENT WINNERS!!!!!!!

Chan Ho Park

He bled runs too

You wanna bet on who wins more games this year?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You wanna bet on who wins more games this year?

I'll take LA

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'll take LA

-wanna see if we get some pitching.I'll bet you Andruw doesn't get more than 30 HR.

[Cannon Shell]

Prospectus Today
The Last Action


by Joe Sheehan
Author
As another slow day in Nashville came to a close—one signing, one trade—the Los Angeles Dodgers made their best move in a very long time. Showing an appreciation of sunk costs and the value of short-term deals, the Dodgers signed center fielder Andruw Jones to a two-year, $36.2 million contract. The deal looks outlandish for its annual salary of $18 million, but the overall commitment makes it one of the great bargains in recent memory.

The signing was a surprise on many levels. For one, the Dodgers have made some terrible decisions over the past two years since Ned Colletti was named general manager. Colletti threw away more than $100 million last winter on free agents who combined to block better players and push the Dodgers away from contention. He’s also shown a willingness to deal away the team’s young talent for little return, and if trades of Joel Guzman, Edwin Jackson, and Dioner Navarro haven’t quite burned them, the returns for those players have done nothing to help the Dodgers win, either.

Consider also that the Dodgers have an expensive albatross in Juan Pierre, the good-guy, bad-player combination to whom they owe $36 million over the next four seasons. Pierre was already an inadequate center fielder, and he'll be even worse, relative to par, in left field, where he may block a better player in Andre Ethier. That’s a problem for another day; Jones is a three- to five-win upgrade on Pierre in each of the next two seasons. Consider that Jones’ WARP in 2007, the worst year of his career, was 4.6. Pierre’s WARP in 2006 and 2007 combined was 4.3. Jones’ career-low EqA of .251 was within shouting distance of Pierre’s career EqA of .256. He’s simply a much, much better player than Pierre is, and we haven’t compared their arms yet.

Jones had some difficulty getting traction in a market loaded with center fielders. He’s coming off the worst season of his life, a .222/.311/.413 nightmare, and taking criticism for defense that is actually still above average, just not at the level he played when he was younger. When you look a bit more closely at Jones’ season, though, you find that many of his indicators were stable. His walk and strikeout rates were slightly worse, but within the bounds of fluctuation. In total, 2007 was a typical Andruw Jones season less 15 homers, five singles, and some intentional walks. His fly-ball rate was unchanged, it's just that the balls didn’t go as far. Given Jones’ age and the stability of so many elements to his performance, I’m certain that he’s going to bounce back to his established level, which in a neutral park would look like .265/.330/.500, with plus defense in center. He’s the player people suddenly think Torii Hunter is. [Ed. note: Nate Silver adds that a PECOTA for Jones as a Dodger yields up .258/.345/.488 with 29 home runs and a 28.5 VORP. Tasty.]

I’m stunned by the length of the deal. Scott Boras was quoted as saying he didn’t want Jones to have to play on a one-year deal, given that he’d just come off that type of season. A two-year deal, however, seems like the worst of both worlds: you’re not getting the maximum aggregate amount of money, nor are you hitting the market as quickly as possible, as young as possible, after bouncing back. There’s enough difference between ages 32 and 33 that I would think Boras would have wanted to have Jones be a free agent again next year. To his credit, Boras appears to have taken more into account than just dollars. Let’s see who notices.

One year or two, this is a fantastic deal for the Dodgers, who get back-end-of-peak years from a Hall of Fame player without committing to his decline phase. Jones will bounce back in 2008, and he’ll be a seven-win player over the two years of the deal. That’s an enormous addition for a team that has been shooting itself in the foot for too long. What it means for Ethier or Matt Kemp is something that can be hashed out, but again, the player in the way isn’t Jones, it’s Pierre, who was a bad signing at the time, and remains so today. The Dodgers have an opportunity to show just how well they understand sunk costs by relegating Pierre to a fourth outfielder’s role, to which he’d be reasonably suited. It would also give us a chance to test the whole “character” framework, to see if the fourth-best outfielder on the roster is able to accept that he, in fact, is that, and sublimate his desire to play more for the good of the team. That’s leadership, right?

I love this contract. It will be far and away the smartest thing any team does this winter, and it pushes the Dodgers up a little bit closer to the Diamondbacks in the 2008 NL West race.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Andruw NOT GUNNA=31 or more HR in 2008

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Batting average is not that important when you are hitting 40 HR's a year.

He will get his hits. Not important. HR's dont matter, in the 20's

It is the enormous number of runs he saves. CF is a huge position.
This is not a bunt and move the man manufacture runs with a single off the fist league anymore.
Balls are continuously crushed in Druw's realm. And more balls will stay in the park for A to run down.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Prospectus Today
The Last Action


by Joe Sheehan
Author
As another slow day in Nashville came to a close—one signing, one trade—the Los Angeles Dodgers made their best move in a very long time. Showing an appreciation of sunk costs and the value of short-term deals, the Dodgers signed center fielder Andruw Jones to a two-year, $36.2 million contract. The deal looks outlandish for its annual salary of $18 million, but the overall commitment makes it one of the great bargains in recent memory.

The signing was a surprise on many levels. For one, the Dodgers have made some terrible decisions over the past two years since Ned Colletti was named general manager. Colletti threw away more than $100 million last winter on free agents who combined to block better players and push the Dodgers away from contention. He’s also shown a willingness to deal away the team’s young talent for little return, and if trades of Joel Guzman, Edwin Jackson, and Dioner Navarro haven’t quite burned them, the returns for those players have done nothing to help the Dodgers win, either.

Consider also that the Dodgers have an expensive albatross in Juan Pierre, the good-guy, bad-player combination to whom they owe $36 million over the next four seasons. Pierre was already an inadequate center fielder, and he'll be even worse, relative to par, in left field, where he may block a better player in Andre Ethier. That’s a problem for another day; Jones is a three- to five-win upgrade on Pierre in each of the next two seasons. Consider that Jones’ WARP in 2007, the worst year of his career, was 4.6. Pierre’s WARP in 2006 and 2007 combined was 4.3. Jones’ career-low EqA of .251 was within shouting distance of Pierre’s career EqA of .256. He’s simply a much, much better player than Pierre is, and we haven’t compared their arms yet.

Jones had some difficulty getting traction in a market loaded with center fielders. He’s coming off the worst season of his life, a .222/.311/.413 nightmare, and taking criticism for defense that is actually still above average, just not at the level he played when he was younger. When you look a bit more closely at Jones’ season, though, you find that many of his indicators were stable. His walk and strikeout rates were slightly worse, but within the bounds of fluctuation. In total, 2007 was a typical Andruw Jones season less 15 homers, five singles, and some intentional walks. His fly-ball rate was unchanged, it's just that the balls didn’t go as far. Given Jones’ age and the stability of so many elements to his performance, I’m certain that he’s going to bounce back to his established level, which in a neutral park would look like .265/.330/.500, with plus defense in center. He’s the player people suddenly think Torii Hunter is. [Ed. note: Nate Silver adds that a PECOTA for Jones as a Dodger yields up .258/.345/.488 with 29 home runs and a 28.5 VORP. Tasty.]

I’m stunned by the length of the deal. Scott Boras was quoted as saying he didn’t want Jones to have to play on a one-year deal, given that he’d just come off that type of season. A two-year deal, however, seems like the worst of both worlds: you’re not getting the maximum aggregate amount of money, nor are you hitting the market as quickly as possible, as young as possible, after bouncing back. There’s enough difference between ages 32 and 33 that I would think Boras would have wanted to have Jones be a free agent again next year. To his credit, Boras appears to have taken more into account than just dollars. Let’s see who notices.

One year or two, this is a fantastic deal for the Dodgers, who get back-end-of-peak years from a Hall of Fame player without committing to his decline phase. Jones will bounce back in 2008, and he’ll be a seven-win player over the two years of the deal. That’s an enormous addition for a team that has been shooting itself in the foot for too long. What it means for Ethier or Matt Kemp is something that can be hashed out, but again, the player in the way isn’t Jones, it’s Pierre, who was a bad signing at the time, and remains so today. The Dodgers have an opportunity to show just how well they understand sunk costs by relegating Pierre to a fourth outfielder’s role, to which he’d be reasonably suited. It would also give us a chance to test the whole “character” framework, to see if the fourth-best outfielder on the roster is able to accept that he, in fact, is that, and sublimate his desire to play more for the good of the team. That’s leadership, right?

I love this contract. It will be far and away the smartest thing any team does this winter, and it pushes the Dodgers up a little bit closer to the Diamondbacks in the 2008 NL West race.

huh?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by GBBob

huh?

I don't see it either(HOF.)Maybe all the Gold Gloves has got them hard for him.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I don't see it either(HOF.)Maybe all the Gold Gloves has got them hard for him.

It's a little narrow to judge a player's body of work by one incident, but when Bobby Cox yanked him out of the game in the middle of an inning for not hustling, it kind of stuck with me

different topic...Chisox reportedly jonesing for Pierre..assume you wouldn't have an issue with him leaving?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

It's a little narrow to judge a player's body of work by one incident, but when Bobby Cox yanked him out of the game in the middle of an inning for not hustling, it kind of stuck with me

different topic...Chisox reportedly jonesing for Pierre..assume you wouldn't have an issue with him leaving?

He is 30 years old. If he plays 8 more years (conservatively) he will wind up with 550+ HR's, 1750 RBi's, 3000 hits, etc to go along with 10+ gold gloves. Easy call unless he really slumps badly. It is easy to forget how young this guy is considering how long he has played. It would be hard to find a CF who had his fielding skills and hit with the power he does. Griffey, Mantle, Mays and not many more. With just average seasons for the next 3 or 4 years he will have better numbers than Duke Snider who played his peak years in a bandbox(Ebbets field) and Kirby Puckett(who played in the homedome). His batting average isnt as good as those 2 but his power numbers are greater and his is a better fielder than either was.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

He will get his hits. Not important. HR's dont matter, in the 20's
It is the enormous number of runs he saves. CF is a huge position.
This is not a bunt and move the man manufacture runs with a single off the fist league anymore.
Balls are continuously crushed in Druw's realm. And more balls will stay in the park for A to run down.

This would seem to contridict your next statement

Of course the first one is wrong...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

It's a little narrow to judge a player's body of work by one incident, but when Bobby Cox yanked him out of the game in the middle of an inning for not hustling, it kind of stuck with me

different topic...Chisox reportedly jonesing for Pierre..assume you wouldn't have an issue with him leaving?

Ken Williams cant be that dumb. As bad as he is in the NL he will be a total disaster in the AL.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is 30 years old. If he plays 8 more years (conservatively) he will wind up with 550+ HR's, 1750 RBi's, 3000 hits, etc to go along with 10+ gold gloves. Easy call unless he really slumps badly. It is easy to forget how young this guy is considering how long he has played. It would be hard to find a CF who had his fielding skills and hit with the power he does. Griffey, Mantle, Mays and not many more. With just average seasons for the next 3 or 4 years he will have better numbers than Duke Snider who played his peak years in a bandbox(Ebbets field) and Kirby Puckett(who played in the homedome). His batting average isnt as good as those 2 but his power numbers are greater and his is a better fielder than either was.

but he's no Steve Garvey

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by GBBob

but he's no Steve Garvey

Garvey started 9 ALLSTAR GAMES,AND HIT .338 IN THE POST.Stop talking **** 'bout that Cafeteria Catholic.....Thank You............Chisox couldn't want Pierre.You don't covet that (you flush it.)

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Garvey started 9 ALLSTAR GAMES,AND HIT .338 IN THE POST.Stop talking **** 'bout that Cafeteria Catholic.....Thank You............Chisox couldn't want Pierre.You don't covet that (you flush it.)

Scuds..I kid you not...papers today have Williams looking at Pierre for leadoff. That's what losing out on Hunter and Cabrera will do to a team

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Scuds..I kid you not...papers today have Williams looking at Pierre for leadoff. That's what losing out on Hunter and Cabrera will do to a team

We don't wan't anything.Just pay the salary.....Go..stick figure be gone...