Winning Colors vs. Rags to Riches

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Exactly. Based on accomplishments you would have to give it to WC, but Rags to Riches is the greater talent of the two. The Belmont Stakes proved it. Rags could get any distance, and was improving. WC obviously had distance limitations.

Uh, that's not exactly what I said or meant.

If you could put both of them as 3yos in a race, I have little doubt WC would beat Rags pretty handily. Talent wise, I'd go with WC.

What I was trying to say is that I don't think we saw the full measure of how good Rags actually is/was. Whether or not she would continue to develop until she was better than WC, I can't say really. My guess is not, but I could have seen it happening before all the nonsense started happening with her.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's true, I forgot, you are an expert at judging horses from television.

Last year, for instance, you told us just by seeing the Tampa Bay Derby on television that there was no way Street Sense would even run in the KY Derby much less win it.

As long as you continue your medical school charade I seriously hope the US doesn't take tort reform seriously.

At least I didn't say that Lawyer Ron was slow or that Lost in the Fog wasn't that good of a horse.

And horse racing experts agree with me about Street Sense and the Tampa Bay Derby. Something was amiss with that horse all winter, and it showed up again before the Belmont Stakes in his workout. You don't add front wraps to a horse for no reason.

BTW, Street Sense was my pick after the BG stakes to win the Derby because whatever was wrong with him was temporarily fixed, and he looked really nice in the BG stakes despite finished second.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Oh, now I get it, the better horse is always the one that would win at the farthest possible distance. Thank God that's finally cleared up.

Wow, I didn't even notice her saying that about WC, the distance limitation.

Wow.

The only limitations WC had were her trainer and the trainer of 49r.

[Danzig]

talent doesn't bring home trophies, running and winning does. hell, there could have been a thousand other fillies born with more talent then both-so what? talent is in the eye of the beholder, and opinion, while race record/opponents defeated, is a fact.

to say rags was improving is pure speculation. she won over the boys at an obsolete distance that none will ever see again. how does that equate to multiple wins over the boys? or winning the derby? or losing in the last jump to an undefeated personal ensign, a champion who also defeated males, including an eclipse winner? it doesn't.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

At least I didn't say that Lawyer Ron was slow or that Lost in the Fog wasn't that good of a horse.

And horse racing experts agree with me about Street Sense and the Tampa Bay Derby. Something was amiss with that horse all winter, and it showed up again before the Belmont Stakes in his workout. You don't add front wraps to a horse for no reason.

Lost in the Fog was one of the most overrated horses of my lifetime. A very nice, and well managed, horse but not even close to the horse people pretended he was. The fact that you don't know that is even further, unnecessary, proof of how little you really know while pretending to know everything.

As for the racing experts comment......note to self.....don't read your posts while eating or drinking.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Danzig

talent doesn't bring home trophies, running and winning does. hell, there could have been a thousand other fillies born with more talent then both-so what? talent is in the eye of the beholder, and opinion, while race record/opponents defeated, is a fact.

to say rags was improving is pure speculation. she won over the boys at an obsolete distance that none will ever see again. how does that equate to multiple wins over the boys? or winning the derby? or losing in the last jump to an undefeated personal ensign, a champion who also defeated males, including an eclipse winner? it doesn't.

Talent and accomplishments. WC would have never beat Curlin in that Belmont Stakes. WC would have never beat Street Sense in the Derby. WC would have not been able to match Curlin and SS in the Preakness. I can see Rags to Riches being right there in all three. She would have been very close if not hitting the wire first. All of it is pure speculation really. I just like Rags to Riches better because I think that she is the better horse. I think that she would have beat winning colors every time. And if Rags to Riches can beat both Curlin and Hard Spun, then I think she could have won multiple other Grade Is against the boys if she would have ran in them. I think that she would have been Horse of the Year if she would have stayed healthy.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

At least I didn't say that Lawyer Ron was slow or that Lost in the Fog wasn't that good of a horse.

And horse racing experts agree with me about Street Sense and the Tampa Bay Derby. Something was amiss with that horse all winter, and it showed up again before the Belmont Stakes in his workout. You don't add front wraps to a horse for no reason.

BTW, Street Sense was my pick after the BG stakes to win the Derby because whatever was wrong with him was temporarily fixed, and he looked really nice in the BG stakes despite finished second.

lemme go get my boots on, it's getting deep in here.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Wow, I didn't even notice her saying that about WC, the distance limitation.

Wow.

The only limitations WC had were her trainer and the trainer of 49r.

Aside from her foolishness......can you imagine how Winning Colors would have been revered on message boards had the internet been around in the 80s?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Talent and accomplishments. WC would have never beat Curlin in that Belmont Stakes.

rags wouldn't have won last years derby, let alone the one in which winning colors ran-and won.
everyone knows the derby is ranked ahead of the belmont. it's why all 10f races are referred to as the 'classic' distance. not 12f. the belmont is an anomaly, as are quite a few of its winners!

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Aside from her foolishness......can you imagine how Winning Colors would have been revered on message boards had the internet been around in the 80s?

I was on the Internet in 87, but yeah, WC would have had many fan clubs.

You know, I always wondered why you are so hard on KRIM, but I think I see why now.

Oh, and if the 3yo WC prior to her getting assassinated by Woody Stephens in the Preakness had run in this past years Belmont, WC would have had an enormous lead and won by a distance.

WC in this past Oaks would have aired in there too. I'm not even sure that Rags would have beaten Goodbye Halo!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Talent and accomplishments. WC would have never beat Curlin in that Belmont Stakes. WC would have never beat Street Sense in the Derby. WC would have not been able to match Curlin and SS in the Preakness. I can see Rags to Riches being right there in all three. She would have been very close if not hitting the wire first. All of it is pure speculation really. I just like Rags to Riches better because I think that she is the better horse. I think that she would have beat winning colors every time. And if Rags to Riches can beat both Curlin and Hard Spun, then I think she could have won multiple other Grade Is against the boys if she would have ran in them.

i'll take cold, hard facts/results over speculation any day.

WC did hold her own in the preakness against the likes of forty niner and risen star, after defeating all comers in ky, and held her own vs the great personal ensign. i'll take that over rags one memorable race any day.
rags didn't run three straight races vs boys, winning two, and showing an incredible will in the third, just two weeks after a win vs those boys. winning colors finished third, unable to run her usual race, and with a horse running with ONE goal-to keep her from winning.

rags had a spring campaign nothing like winning colors.







"At 3:
Won Santa Anita Derby (G1), Kentucky Derby (G1), Santa Anita Oaks (G1), La Centinela S.
2nd Breeders' Cup Distaff S. (G1), Las Virgenes S. (G1), Maskette S. (G1)
3rd Preakness S. (G1)
4th Spinster S. (G1)
At 4:
Won Turfway Breeders' Cup S.
4th Maskette S. (G1)

1988 Eclipse Champion Three Year Old Filly.

One of three fillies to ever win the Kentucky Derby."

hell, winning colors has won more races than rags has even run in.


and could you explain the bold above? rags didn't even try, so what does speculation about what Winning Colors would have done last year have to do with rags? keep in mind, winning colors repeatedly took on the top three year old colts-with a win in the derby--not a no show like rags.

Rags gained big fame from the Belmont.
To me, that Belmont was absolutely bizarre.
We got to see which horse was fastest
after walking on their knees for close to a mile.

The finish was great, but the race too weird.

WC.

[blackthroatedwind]

It's also worth mentioning that when she was second in the Maskette she lost by a half length to Personal Ensign.

Winning Colors for the insignificant internet debate win.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

At least I didn't say that Lawyer Ron was slow or that Lost in the Fog wasn't that good of a horse.

And horse racing experts agree with me about Street Sense and the Tampa Bay Derby. Something was amiss with that horse all winter, and it showed up again before the Belmont Stakes in his workout. You don't add front wraps to a horse for no reason.

BTW, Street Sense was my pick after the BG stakes to win the Derby because whatever was wrong with him was temporarily fixed, and he looked really nice in the BG stakes despite finished second.

Can you please let me know who these experts were so I can be sure to never read anything else they ever write and to laugh at them on sight? Something was amiss with him all winter. That explains why he won the Derby and ran the eventual HOY to a nose in the Preakness in the spring. The front wraps were added to further prove your point. That explains why he was able to win the Travers in the summer.

Look. After the Tampa Bay Derby, I was also on here saying that it wouldn't surprise me if either he or AGS were knocked out because it may have been too much, too early. What that's called is being wrong. It's ok to be wrong dear and to admit it. It's much better than sticking with the BS like you are doing now.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's also worth mentioning that when she was second in the Maskette she lost by a half length to Personal Ensign.

i can't imagine rags finishing within daylight of personal ensign. or winning colors for that matter.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Can you please let me know who these experts were so I can be sure to never read anything else they ever write and to laugh at them on sight? Something was amiss with him all winter. That explains why he won the Derby and ran the eventual HOY to a nose in the Preakness in the spring. The front wraps were added to further prove your point. That explains why he was able to win the Travers in the summer.

Look. After the Tampa Bay Derby, I was also on here saying that it wouldn't surprise me if either he or AGS were knocked out because it may have been too much, too early. What that's called is being wrong. It's ok to be wrong dear and to admit it. It's much better than sticking with the BS like you are doing now.

wasn't there something involving a record at tampa as well??? might explain that too. obviously something wrong.
just think what he could have done had everything been just right?!

Holy Jesus!!

I just perused the contents of this thread.

T.O.Y Nominee.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i can't imagine rags finishing within daylight of personal ensign. or winning colors for that matter.

I actually think Indian Charlie put it best when he pretty much alluded to Rags's incomplete resume. For those of us who actually saw Winning Colors race, and have real perspective, there is really no comparison.

However, if you were to choose one for the Temple Gwathany then perhaps Rags to Riches would be the right horse. Perhaps.

[miraja2]

I always think it is a shame that Goodbye Halo never gets mentioned in in these kind of threads. She was from the same crop as Winning Colors, and while WC certainly has to be considered the best 3yo filly from that year, Goodbye Halo was a hell of a filly and a 7-time G1 winner.
If you haven't watched the famous '88 Distaff in awhile, check it out on youtube. That race wasn't simply a 2-horse finish by any means.

I think I might take her over Rags as well.