Bush trying to keep waterboarding

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

there is stem cell research, just no fetal stem cell research funded with federal money. to be honest, that suits me just fine-but not due to religion. the federal govt was never supposed to include things like that.
i neither know, nor care, who bush considers his base. this veto would be for what is regarded as for the best for this nation and the safety of its citizens.

No,it's torture.You want to have torture allowed then fine,but not 1 of the candidates running are for it,and this is gunna get cleaned up when this f'n hypocrite dog leaves the White House.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well,for one thing,whoever did those acts isn't alive.You are.I don't blame the religion for his support of torture.I blame him for ignoring Christ. I have no use for most all of the Old Testament,anyways.That's why I say I wished they would pay attention to Christ (instead of stuff he didn't even write.) You say the church has a philosophy of fear and superiority? Show me religions that don't.What are they.It ain't the big 3 or 4.Maybe BUDDHISM.This is not a thread about how great (or not) Christianity itself is.It's about hypocrisy.

I've searched history for years and never found such from most pagan religions, certainly not mine..but you are correct, it's not about putting down Christianity but about the truth...historical facts! You can consider them or not, justify them or not, ignore them or not...but the historical evidence exists. I don't defend the evil of radical Islam or the abuses of Judiasm or any other faith, nor do I mention them to elevate witchcraft, I mention them because they are rooted in historical fact. Christianity is as good a path to the devine as any...but it has never been perfect, nor has it ever been the only path! Bush is everything you say, except he didn't invent hypocracy...it comes from an air of superiority...Bush is nothing more than a believer in the "one way" concept...and that makes him dangerous to those who follow other paths.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

from what i read on the veto, waterboarding isn't even in use right now by the cia, or the military--both groups have banned it.

the bill he vetoed would limit the cia to the same 19 interrogation techniques the military uses. a veto does not mean the cia would suddenly allow waterboarding. i don't know what they currently use, but apparently he doesn't want the cia to lose some things it currently does allow--and right now, that does NOT include waterboarding.

"waterboarding remains in the CIA's tool kit. The technique can be used, but it requires the consent of the attorney general and president on a case-by-case basis. Bush wants to keep that option open."

So,what your saying is bullshit.They allow torture by waterboarding,but only if permission comes from hi levels.He wants the option to torture when he wants to torture.They allow waterboarding in the cia,but they need his permission.He wants the right to torture when he deems it necessary.A Christian shouldn't ever want the right to torture.He is hypocrite scum.A Methodist wants the right to torture somebody. That's a religious hypocrite. If he is signing off to torture people,then he is hardly acting Christian.All you people can get in line with the torture lover.That's not my country..that's yours.This should be a huge issue coming up in the election in November.We will see how far McCain is willing to go to distance himself from this thug activity.We are supposed to be a better country than this.That is a disgrace(to see a sitting president veto a bill outlawing torture.) We look low like dogs....base.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No,it's torture.You want to have torture allowed then fine,but not 1 of the candidates running are for it,and this is gunna get cleaned up when this f'n hypocrite dog leaves the White House.

what part of 'waterboarding has been banned by both the military and cia' do you not understand? to say that a veto automatically = use of waterboarding is simplistic.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

"waterboarding remains in the CIA's tool kit. The technique can be used, but it requires the consent of the attorney general and president on a case-by-case basis. Bush wants to keep that option open."

So,what your saying is bullshit.They allow torture by waterboarding,but only if permission comes from hi levels.He wants the option to torture when he wants to torture.They allow waterboarding in the cia,but they need his permission.He wants the right to torture when he deems it necessary.A Christian shouldn't ever want the right to torture.He is hypocrite scum.A Methodist wants the right to torture somebody. That's a religious hypocrite. If he is signing off to torture people,then he is hardly acting Christian.

no, i put up what i read in the article about the use of waterboarding being banned. it didn't have in there about exceptions to the rule, so perhaps the article is bullshit.
i don't care if he's christian or not, i don't care what his feelings personally are on the subject. it's got nothing to do with that.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

what part of 'waterboarding has been banned by both the military and cia' do you not understand? to say that a veto automatically = use of waterboarding is simplistic.

Danzig...the part where the bill bans it's use and Bush is vetoing it!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, i put up what i read in the article about the use of waterboarding being banned. it didn't have in there about exceptions to the rule, so perhaps the article is bullshit.
i don't care if he's christian or not, i don't care what his feelings personally are on the subject. it's got nothing to do with that.

He ran on religious values.That's allowed.Now,he has done something totally against those values.He is a hypocrite,and so are other Christians that support torture.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Danzig...the part where the bill bans it's use and Bush is vetoing it!

The bill would have limited the CIA to 19 interrogation techniques that are used by the military and spelled out in the Army Field Manual. Bush said he vetoed the measure because it is important for the CIA to have a separate and classified interrogation program for suspected terrorists who possess critical information about possible plots against the United States.


Bush said he did not veto the bill specifically over waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning. The Army banned the use of waterboarding or sensory deprivation on uncooperative prisoners in 2006. The CIA, which also prohibited the practice in 2006, has acknowledged using waterboarding on three suspected terrorists in 2003.
"My disagreement ... is not over any particular interrogation technique; for instance, it is not over waterboarding, which is not part of the current CIA program," Bush said in his veto message to the House. The attorney general has deemed that program legal under domestic and international law, he said.

In a memo to CIA employees Saturday, CIA Director Michael Hayden said the Army Field Manual does not "exhaust the universe" of lawful interrogation techniques. "There are methods in the CIA's program that have been briefed to our oversight committees, are fully consistent with the Geneva Convention and current U.S. law and are most certainly not torture," Hayden wrote

[Danzig]

and just for the record, i don't think we should be torturing anyone.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

The bill would have limited the CIA to 19 interrogation techniques that are used by the military and spelled out in the Army Field Manual. Bush said he vetoed the measure because it is important for the CIA to have a separate and classified interrogation program for suspected terrorists who possess critical information about possible plots against the United States.


Bush said he did not veto the bill specifically over waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning. The Army banned the use of waterboarding or sensory deprivation on uncooperative prisoners in 2006. The CIA, which also prohibited the practice in 2006, has acknowledged using waterboarding on three suspected terrorists in 2003.
"My disagreement ... is not over any particular interrogation technique; for instance, it is not over waterboarding, which is not part of the current CIA program," Bush said in his veto message to the House. The attorney general has deemed that program legal under domestic and international law, he said.

In a memo to CIA employees Saturday, CIA Director Michael Hayden said the Army Field Manual does not "exhaust the universe" of lawful interrogation techniques. "There are methods in the CIA's program that have been briefed to our oversight committees, are fully consistent with the Geneva Convention and current U.S. law and are most certainly not torture," Hayden wrote

Unfortunately, taking the word of the Bush administration seems risky to me...I close my eyes and see all those WMD going poof before the eyes of the world...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Unfortunately, taking the word of the Bush administration seems risky to me...I close my eyes and see all those WMD going poof before the eyes of the world...

it is.
but so is seeing all the headlines on my home page screaming 'waterboarding bill vetoed'. media does love to stoke hysteria.

i'm looking forward to the end of the bush circus...er, administration.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it is.
but so is seeing all the headlines on my home page screaming 'waterboarding bill vetoed'. media does love to stoke hysteria.

i'm looking forward to the end of the bush circus...er, administration.

I think a lot of us are (hopefully a majority)...McCain getting Bush's support may be enough to put the Dems over the top...then again, nothing seems certain in blue vs red America.

[skippy3481]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well,for one thing,whoever did those acts isn't alive.You are.I don't blame the religion for his support of torture.I blame him for ignoring Christ. I have no use for most all of the Old Testament,anyways.That's why I say I wished they would pay attention to Christ (instead of stuff he didn't even write.) You say the church has a philosophy of fear and superiority? Show me religions that don't.What are they.It ain't the big 3 or 4.Maybe BUDDHISM.This is not a thread about how great (or not) Christianity itself is.It's about hypocrisy.

Scuds, are you serious? First Christ didn't write anything in the bible. Various authors did. He is methodist, which means he believes in the trinity. All scripture is god-breathed and god-inspired. So Christ=God. While the god of the bible is a loving god. he is also a vengeful god. There are plenty of examples of his wrath.

Why would you discount the old testament and read only about christ, when the whole bible is about God=Christ?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

[quote=skippy3481]Scuds, are you serious? First Christ didn't write anything in the bible. Various authors did. He is methodist, which means he believes in the trinity. All scripture is god-breathed and god-inspired. So Christ=God. While the god of the bible is a loving god. he is also a vengeful god. There are plenty of examples of his wrath.

Why would you discount the old testament and read only about christ, when the whole bible is about God=Christ?[/QUOT

For the most part,the Old Testament is written by old guys in the desert who said they were inspired.It's crap. Just guys talking ****,and of course it's gunna line up perfectly with people of present day that also are looking for something that agrees with their way of thinking.The people who are attracted to the OLD TESTAMENT are people looking to force people to be a certain way that they agree with.Hateful people wrote it,and hateful people are attracted to it.For instance,homosexuality is written about in the Old Testament,but Christ never talked about it.You would certainly think if it was so important,then he would have commented about it.Nope.The people who commented about it are people who hated homosexuals (for instance,a-hole Paul in the New Testament.) If you want a positive experience,then go by what Christ said.If you want to hate gays,and like to punish people then be like most of HEE HAW Nation,and put your head into the parts of the Bible that don't have Christ's words.If you choose to think of God as vengeful,then read the parts of the Bible written by guys like yourself.That's all they were.Just guys who said they were inspired.Could be most any Nascar Driver.Let him go into the desert with some wine and write about people he doesn't like,and voila...inspired word of God.It's called Christianity,but people much prefer to read the words of people other than Christ(because it fits a- holes thinking a lot better.) Wouldn't be a very popular religion if it didn't have the angry judgemental stuff.

[Danzig]

and certainly christ recommended calling certain segments of the population things such as 'hee haw'. or denigrate them simply because of what area of the country they live in.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and certainly christ recommended calling certain segments of the population things such as 'hee haw'. or denigrate them simply because of what area of the country they live in.

No he didn't recommend dat,cuz they didn't have the show yet back then.He also didn't recommend grown people make gang sign-type movements with their fingers(while uttering the words "Hook em Horns.")Don't you think when one does such things,then they are pretty much auditioning to be on the new HEE HAW SHOW? Don't you think HEE HAW would be an accurate description?What about when grown people have fake pigheads on their heads,and say "suuu eeey" ? Is that not like dat Hee Haw show?

Jesus is a cool dude.If he was here widme,I would get him some cheetos and a Dr. Pepper.He would say "thank you my son," and I'd say "this is called HEE HAW Cuisine."He would say "it's quite salty,"and I'd say "Hee Haw like it dat way, pa." Then he'd say "can I meet this man called HAW." I would then let him know dat HEE HAW has been waiting to meet him for quite some time now.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and certainly christ recommended calling certain segments of the population things such as 'hee haw'. or denigrate them simply because of what area of the country they live in.

My mom escaped from HEE HAW.My dad as well.He had da Yankee mama though.So,if it makes ya feel better,I am 3/4 HEE HAW by blood.I grew up with escaped Hee Haw relatives.My parents list a lot of places to retire at,but none of them are in the south.I tell them they could get a lot of house down there,and have a lot left over....They just look at me like I am taking a public dump.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

You can claim what you want about who is doing what,but the fact remains that the following is 100% truth.Blame the press.Blame anybody you can ,but the statement is exactly what happened.After all your word games n' exercises it's still is going to be the truth.

President George W. Bush on Saturday vetoed legislation passed by Congress that would have banned the CIA from using waterboarding and other controversial interrogation techniques.



PERIOD.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Let me be clear.If you're a Christian,then there is no alternate view here.Torture is not in line with Christ's teachings.So,all these people claiming to be Christians should be outraged,but they won't be(because they are f'n hypocrites.)

AND TRUE ISLAM DOESNT BELIEVE IN IT ALSO..

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You can claim what you want about who is doing what,but the fact remains that the following is 100% truth.Blame the press.Blame anybody you can ,but the statement is exactly what happened.After all your word games n' exercises it's still is going to be the truth.

President George W. Bush on Saturday vetoed legislation passed by Congress that would have banned the CIA from using waterboarding and other controversial interrogation techniques.



PERIOD.

THEY SUB THAT OUT TO BLACKWATER..