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#21
04-13-2008, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
I don't get the Immortal Eyes/The Leopard example. You're knocking the guy for having his $200K Greatness colt lose to a $2.5 million Storm Cat (who subsequently won a stake - I know it was on turf - and who happened to be the highest-priced 2YO sold in-training in 2007). In short, the point is not whether KM is a better trainer than RV. I was responding to a quote that said Violette was fired "because he doesn't win." I just don't think that statement is accurate. 
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#22
04-13-2008, 09:54 PM
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Will be interesting to see what will become of Saratoga Russell, now that hes in the hands of KMc.
In defense of RV, hes done better with the west point stock than their Kentucky/ fair grounds trainer.
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#23
04-13-2008, 10:10 PM
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Whatever the case; if it's not obvious to some here --and THIS IS the home of MISSING-the-OBVIOUS-- that KM is a bit of a better trainer that RV, it certainly seems to be WP's position. We can persist with irrational exchange or we can just take the facts at face value:
VIOLETTE is OUT!!! Kicked to the CURB. Truth hurts. Deal with it.
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#24
04-13-2008, 10:33 PM
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Hello, I'm new to the forums here on the same day I receive a call from WP telling me my horse (Tatter Tutt) will be getting KM as his new trainer.
Violette did a great job spotting Tatter Tutt to his 5 wins in the past 6 months but I had a hard time with his last descision to run him @ 7F last week!! 
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#25
04-13-2008, 10:49 PM
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You should be happy. . . KMc is a superior trainer to Violette
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#26
04-14-2008, 12:43 PM
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Anyone hear anything yet as to "what really happened" here?
I'm not going to get into the pissing match of who is a good trainer and who is not. I think stats, results, performance, qualified and educates opinions, etc. speak for itself -- when people actually know what they are looking at, talking about, etc. Sure, there are elements that distort stats and facts, and that happens. Not time and time again though. Some trainers overachieve and some underachieve. As far as West Point pulling their horses from Violette -- I didn't hear anything about it until I read it here. I have no idea why this might have happened. Not that I should either as I have zero connections to either, and I don't just go asking around the backstretch either. I did always find one thing extremely ironic -- and that was the Violette/Finley/NYTHA/Empire issue. The CliffNotes version -- Rick Violette is a long standing board member of the NYTHA, and as a trainer board member, a vocal one. In the past, and during the entire saga, most often you heard from Bomze, the "in house" counsel" Alan Foreman, or Bob Flynn (then executive director). After Richard Bomze steps downs, Violette takes over as the NYTHA President. At the same time, Terry Finley is also on the board of the NYTHA. However, while he's on the NYHTA board, he also joins FONY and/or Empire. He just didn't join a committee or get nominated to the board -- he becomes a shareholder -- and is then still part of the NYTHA board that decides and throws it's backing behind Empire. The soap opera plays out for a few seasons, and later, the NYTHA pulls its backing from Empire and begins to play ball with NYRA. This might have been an ingredient here, although most of the saga is over -- excluding the VLT's, LOL. The entire situation and how it played out had problems, so it's not just this aspect. Notwithstanding the specific players, and I am not referring to anyone specific, I felt there were always potential conflicts of interest here. Whether it was incestuous relationships, conflicts, or what, it was just to hard not to have them. There were of course initially factions on the NYHTA Board -- which in reality should not be the case at all. That was compounded and made worse when the NYHTA Board decided to have the entire organization endorse and support Empire. This lead to more animosity and division. I have no idea what went on here. Maybe we might soon read or hear about what happened. I also don't know about what happened with Cristiano either. Eric
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#28
04-14-2008, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Eric
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#29
04-14-2008, 04:08 PM
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#30
04-14-2008, 04:22 PM
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Eric,
You posted what I was thinking (politics) last night when I first saw this item. If one's worried about potential conflicts, keep in mind that McLaughlin is also on the NYTHA board.
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#31
04-14-2008, 09:17 PM
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West Point Decision
I think that the decision to rid RV of his WP horse's was not because of his training skills. It had to be Politics or a disagreement about something. I talked with Jeff Bloom who is the western rep and he said these things happen in the business. This tells me there was a problem with the relationship and not the Trainer's skill. I am happy that my horse was given to KM, and am looking forward to hear what he thinks of Tater Tutt.
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#32
04-14-2008, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
I wouldn't care if he voted for Hillary if he was getting results.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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#33
04-14-2008, 10:24 PM
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Km & Rv
It is after all a business of "ups & "downs" so RV finds himself on the down side after this one. Both are very good trainers and being on the backstretch at Saratoga the past several years I have watched both at work and this it was I see in the morning.
RV always carrying his binoc's and stopwatch and hanging on the rail watching his horses. Seemed to be ok with owners coming around but had a feeling if it was his choice he would do without them. Seemed to be very much in control of his stock and workers. Got in quite an argument with an owner one morning on the condition of the track surface and was pushing RV to go to NYRA and demand action for horses were coming back very sore from the am workouts over the rock hard main and turf courses. Seemd RV was not going to do much and the owner walked away spewing a few choice words for all to hear. KM on the other hand huddles with the masses around the snack shack while his brother and others tend to the morning works. Pleasant and soft spoken and willing to talk it up with anyone. When his big guns work he will walk away with them from the track and reappear within a half hour or so to watch his next set while mingling. Two very different styles/approach to the morning. RV had West Point and a few other high caliber outfits, while KM has to deal with the Darley outfit as his primary bread and butter. What might be the most interesting part of the equation is the stable VET. KM from what I am told has the best in the business...cutting edge if you get my drift, while RV has the normal run of the mill VET. I would guess that West Point is going to get some very nice VET treatment now for their horses. Should be interesting as the weeks unfold on how the transfer of stock progress on the track.. engine ONE
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#34
04-14-2008, 10:39 PM
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I think that is a very fair Observation in fact one of the biggest Arguments I have seen on the backside came at Saratoga Between RV and one of the clockers (which one escapes me right now). Man was he PO'd.
Round Pen
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#35
04-14-2008, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
You have a similar situation with another board member and trainer -- both serve on the NYTHA board. However, as long as there is integrity in the process, you will have an efficient and effective board. Quote:
Eric
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#36
04-15-2008, 09:31 AM
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#37
04-15-2008, 05:38 PM
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#38
04-15-2008, 05:51 PM
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You would think Overbrook would expect more.
Going from Violette to KMC isnt a lateral move.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ySSg4QG8g
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#39
04-17-2008, 11:00 AM
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RV vs KM
I just received an update on my horse. I'm pissed that RV missed this. There are other horses that KM said looked thin and not healthy. I will do a count on the transfered horses and let you know which ones are affected if anyone wants to know. Have the feed costs gone up that much?????
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#40
04-17-2008, 11:01 AM
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WP update
Sorry here is the update:
Tater Tutt shipped to Kiaran, and he thought Tater Tutt was a little thin after his last race, so he decided to only jog him for a few days. He thought that Tater Tutt was a little bit off behind, so he took him out to jog him on the road and noticed that he was off in his right hind leg. He had the vet come in to scan him, and he discovered a small crack in Tater Tutt's right rear sesamoid. Tater Tutt will be examined by Dr. Baker to see if he might be a candidate for stem cell. In general, having an injury like this is most favorable when in a hind leg. We'll let Dr. Baker take a look at Tater Tutt and then have a better idea of the length of the down time after he evaluates Tater Tutt.
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