Denis sparkles in drill under Borel

Originally Posted by Scav

I'll admit that I am including him in my tri and exactas.

I am keying Colonel John in all three spots with 9 other horses, total cost of $216. Right now my five horses for the $10 exacta box I play are.

Colonel John
Denis of Cork
Pyro
Z Fortune
Have no idea on the fifth

Tale of Ekati.

[slotdirt]

Steve, the Denis report is great, but since you were there, do you have anything for the masses on Z Fortune? He also worked this morning at the Downs...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Steve, the Denis report is great, but since you were there, do you have anything for the masses on Z Fortune? He also worked this morning at the Downs...

Nice pull Slot, suprised Steve didn't mention it.

50.1 work, slow, but probably what was asked of him given assmussen usually doesn't work very fast

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Denis of Cork just posted what will likely be the day's most talked about work at the Downs ripping 5f in 1:00.0 and galloping out the final quarter in a shade over :22.0.
Under Calvin Borel, the David Carroll trainee went easily for a half mile (48.0) without urging before being asked for the sharp finish. Borel had difficulty pulling the colt up.

Great info, I like horses that start slow and finish fast rather than start fast and finish slow...thus final times on works never tell the entire story esp in longer races that require stamina. This was useful.

[tiggerv]

How much stock are you guys really putting into these workouts? I understand wanting to see a workout for a first time starter to determine if the horse has any talent or to check the fitness of a horse off a long layoff. What I don't get is the importance of 1 workout for a Derby horse that has proven race form. I mean even Hacker Craft apparently can put in a good workout. It doesn't mean I am going to bet him or claim him (sorry Chuck). Am I supposed to jump on the Court Vision bandwagon because he can work a 46 even though his proven race form says otherwise? Even a horse like Colonel John who has never run on dirt...how much is a 3F breeze going to tell you? I guarantee that there will be a lot of jockey and trainer speak about how much he loved the surface no matter what he does. I have never heard a trainer say a horse has been working like crap before a race.

Someone school me on how you are interpreting this data because I won't even look at it.

[sumitas]

To answer your question, none.

Originally Posted by tiggerv

How much stock are you guys really putting into these workouts? I understand wanting to see a workout for a first time starter to determine if the horse has any talent or to check the fitness of a horse off a long layoff. What I don't get is the importance of 1 workout for a Derby horse that has proven race form. I mean even Hacker Craft apparently can put in a good workout. It doesn't mean I am going to bet him or claim him (sorry Chuck). Am I supposed to jump on the Court Vision bandwagon because he can work a 46 even though his proven race form says otherwise? Even a horse like Colonel John who has never run on dirt...how much is a 3F breeze going to tell you? I guarantee that there will be a lot of jockey and trainer speak about how much he loved the surface no matter what he does. I have never heard a trainer say a horse has been working like crap before a race.

Someone school me on how you are interpreting this data because I won't even look at it.

Uh sir...

This isn't the time, nor place for making sense.

Move along now.

[slotdirt]

I would suggest with all the whacky synthetic tracks out there, how a horse works over Churchill's strip is more important than ever in terms of how a given entrant might perform in next weekend's big race. I know I'm paying attention to these works more so than I have in the past.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Scav

Nice pull Slot, suprised Steve didn't mention it.

50.1 work, slow, but probably what was asked of him given assmussen usually doesn't work very fast

Recall that Z Fortune ran a week ago Saturday... He was stretching his legs.

This was Denis of Cork's last serious effort before the Derby start, if there is going to be a Derby start, and since he didn't get a lot out of the Hawthorne visit, it was an important drill.

[ShadowRoll]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

How much stock are you guys really putting into these workouts? I understand wanting to see a workout for a first time starter to determine if the horse has any talent or to check the fitness of a horse off a long layoff. What I don't get is the importance of 1 workout for a Derby horse that has proven race form. I mean even Hacker Craft apparently can put in a good workout. It doesn't mean I am going to bet him or claim him (sorry Chuck). Am I supposed to jump on the Court Vision bandwagon because he can work a 46 even though his proven race form says otherwise? Even a horse like Colonel John who has never run on dirt...how much is a 3F breeze going to tell you? I guarantee that there will be a lot of jockey and trainer speak about how much he loved the surface no matter what he does. I have never heard a trainer say a horse has been working like crap before a race.

Someone school me on how you are interpreting this data because I won't even look at it.

A good clocker's report is worth it's weight in gold. It's not so much the raw times, but how the horse looked -- whether he's eager, how he carries himself, how he runs the different portions of the work, who's on him, who works with him, if there's any interaction with other horses, how he finished up, whether he was blowing when he got done and how he cooled off.

I've said this several times before, but I got burnt at Barbaro's Derby when I didn't use Bluegrass Cat on my tickets because his last prep race was a clunker, despite the fact that I liked him earlier in the year. I remember very clearly listening to ATR while I was driving from PA to Kentucky, and someone on the show (probably Steve) reporting just how good Blugrass Cat looked during his works at Churchill.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

How much stock are you guys really putting into these workouts? I understand wanting to see a workout for a first time starter to determine if the horse has any talent or to check the fitness of a horse off a long layoff. What I don't get is the importance of 1 workout for a Derby horse that has proven race form. I mean even Hacker Craft apparently can put in a good workout. It doesn't mean I am going to bet him or claim him (sorry Chuck). Am I supposed to jump on the Court Vision bandwagon because he can work a 46 even though his proven race form says otherwise? Even a horse like Colonel John who has never run on dirt...how much is a 3F breeze going to tell you? I guarantee that there will be a lot of jockey and trainer speak about how much he loved the surface no matter what he does. I have never heard a trainer say a horse has been working like crap before a race.

Someone school me on how you are interpreting this data because I won't even look at it.

The workouts and physical appearance of Derby starters on THIS track should be of great interest. In the last couple of years they pointed out impending big efforts from Street Sense, Barbaro and Bluegrass Cat, as well as poor efforts from any number of runners. Read Mike Welsch's and Steve Haskin's workout reports for some clues as to how the runners are getting over the track and looking generally. I also expect to have several top dawn patrol types on ATR next week.

I can tell you specifically that Bluegrass Cat, whom I hated, blossomed as Derby Week progressed two years ago, his coat going from dull and lifeless the weekend before to glistening by Thursday. I ignored it, though Haskin kept telling me he was coming in right, and it cost me the all the exotics as I had included Barbaro, Jazil and Steppenwolfer but excluded BluCat.

You're looking for horses that are showing signs of being at the peak of fitness... and that is something that needs to be observed. Since many can't view it, relying on people like Gary Young, Welsch and Haskin as your eyes certainly doesn't hurt.

[whodey17]

I was at the work as well this morning. It was pretty amazing. I like to really look over the horse after a work to see how he handled it. DofC was awesome after the work. He acted as if he wanted to go out there again and work. I remember Sweetnorthernsaint working extremely fast and when he got back to the barn he was spent. But not DofC---I was very very impressed with his actions after the work.

To answer about Z Fortune - he was out there for a little jog. Nothing special.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

How much stock are you guys really putting into these workouts? I understand wanting to see a workout for a first time starter to determine if the horse has any talent or to check the fitness of a horse off a long layoff. What I don't get is the importance of 1 workout for a Derby horse that has proven race form. I mean even Hacker Craft apparently can put in a good workout. It doesn't mean I am going to bet him or claim him (sorry Chuck). Am I supposed to jump on the Court Vision bandwagon because he can work a 46 even though his proven race form says otherwise? Even a horse like Colonel John who has never run on dirt...how much is a 3F breeze going to tell you? I guarantee that there will be a lot of jockey and trainer speak about how much he loved the surface no matter what he does. I have never heard a trainer say a horse has been working like crap before a race.

Someone school me on how you are interpreting this data because I won't even look at it.

I used to feel the same way but the past few years the reports on the works for the Derby and BC have beed dead on as the horses looking good have run well and the few that actually drew negative attention ran poorly. I, of course, ignored that info and left horses like Bluegrass Cat off my ticket and only played Barbaro underneath. I'm going to be paying a lot more attention this year especially in the case of a Colonel John who's never run on dirt. Never listen to what the trainers have to say, they are of course going to tell you that everything went perfect. But there are a lot of people out there who do know exactly what to look for and getting their input can be important. It's only a piece of the puzzle but it is one that shouldn't be completely ignored.

[CSC]

I agree with most that see workouts at CD as a vital source of information. With the advent of Poly as suspect prep or indicators of upcoming performances. I am more willing to rely on a good eye from trackside as a valuable handicapping tool. I know Steve Haskin glows about almost every horse but he does give clues almost every year.

[ShadowRoll]

http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=44710

[Rileyoriley]

I would appreciate it Steve if you would continue to post your observations. Thanks.

[Scav]

All of this will be for not since Porter is yapping that he is cross entering Eight Belles and post will determine where he is going, heres to him getting pinned to the rail in both races.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Scav

All of this will be for not since Porter is yapping that he is cross entering Eight Belles and post will determine where he is going, heres to him getting pinned to the rail in both races.

I like the horse but his clowning makes it tough.

[10 pnt move up]

Dennis of Cork gave me something to blog about today.

http://thehlife.blogspot.com/

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Dennis of Cork gave me something to blog about today.

http://thehlife.blogspot.com/

Seeing as how you can't spell his name right, why should I believe you know what you're talking about when it comes to "Denis" of Cork?