Inspirational and depressing at the same time

[slotdirt]

I don't know, Louis Quatorze has had a couple of nice runners, and Black Tie Affair, of course, is the sire of Formal Gold. Free House, well, he died, so I'm not going to hold that against him. Silver Charm wasn't exactly given a chance domestically; we'll see how he works out in Japan.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I don't know, Louis Quatorze has had a couple of nice runners, and Black Tie Affair, of course, is the sire of Formal Gold. Free House, well, he died, so I'm not going to hold that against him. Silver Charm wasn't exactly given a chance domestically; we'll see how he works out in Japan.

I realize that some have had a few nice horses, but with the exception of Touch Gold and Skip Away, these horses have been relegated to serving regional markets. Consider how they have done versus some of the other horses that entered stud in either 1998 or 1999 (many of which had far less distinguished racing careers and started at very modest stud fees in comparison): Arch, Benchmark, Distorted Humor, Elusive Quality, Grand Slam, Indian Charlie, Langfuhr, Northern Afleet, Pulpit, Smoke Glacken, Stormy Atlantic, Tale of the Cat and Valid Expectations.

[slotdirt]

I think I read Captain Bodgit or Will's Way - I can't remember which - is standing in Alberta somewhere for like $1500.

Of the ones you mentioned, Skip Away has to have been the biggest disappointment at stud.

[sumitas]

It's difficult to pass on racing performance.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by sumitas

It's difficult to pass on racing performance.

Compelling stuff, man. Nice job.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by justindew

Formal Gold's record in races at distances under 1 1/4 miles was 12-8-4-0. His worst defeat was 3/4 length.

He was getting weight from Skip Away in every race except the Woodward, in case you didn't notice.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

He was getting weight from Skip Away in every race except the Woodward, in case you didn't notice.

And his Woodward was his best race and easiest victory over Skip Away. Thank you for pointing out what I have said all along.....weight is meaningless. Much appreciated.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

This thread just goes to show how much of a crapshoot the breeding side of the business can be. The horses mentioned (or referenced) include Formal Gold, Skip Away, Louis Quatorze, Will's Way, Gentlemen, Silver Charm, Captain Bodgit, Free House, Behrens, Black Tie Affair and Touch Gold - all serious racehorses. Of all these, probably only Touch Gold could be considered a success at stud.

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

[VOL JACK]

Funny that a horse could run second twice while earning a 122 and 126 beyer. How times have changed.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

He was getting weight from Skip Away in every race except the Woodward, in case you didn't notice.

I don't have Skip Away's PPs in front of me, and it's been 10 years. But other than his win over Cigar at Belmont, I seem to remember his biggest victories coming against suspect fields.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Funny that a horse could run second twice while earning a 122 and 126 beyer. How times have changed.

...and when is the last time the 5th place finisher in the BC Classic earned a 108?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

None of these top runners was fashionably-bred; in fact, they were all considered a bit 'down-market' in their breeding and were treated accordingly by the top tier breeders. They got the mares who were out of the half-sisters to the good runners instead of the half-sisters themselves, that sort of thing. Captain Bodgit died young, too.

I agree that some were not fashionably bred, but compared to the others listed above, Behrens (Pleasant Colony), Will's Way (Easy Goer) and Captain Bodgit (Saint Ballado) certainly fit the bill. Starting out, they were certainly no less fashionably bred than horses like Indian Charlie (In Excess), Valid Expectations (Valid Appeal), Northern Afleet (Afleet), and Smoke Glacken (Two Punch).

Horses like Distorted Humor, Arch, and Elusive Quality all began their careers at stud fees in the $10,000 range, so it's not like they were getting bred to top mares when they started out. They just outperformed their more recognizable (from a racing perspective) contemporaries in the breeding shed and, as a result, are now getting the top mares that they earned the hard way.

Finally, the Thoroughbred Times Stallion Directory lists Captain Bodgit as standing in Canada.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by justindew

...and when is the last time the 5th place finisher in the BC Classic earned a 108?

2004, actually it was a 109 then.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

2004, actually it was a 109 then.

I think that was Azeri. She got a 109? Really? Wow.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by justindew

I think that was Azeri. She got a 109? Really? Wow.

Lifetime she had a 112, a 111, two 110s, and four 109s. Now we get excited when a mare runs a 105.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Lifetime she had a 112, a 111, two 110s, and four 109s. Now we get excited when a mare runs a 105.

Oh, I wasn't surprised she ran a 109, I was surprised she ran a 109 in the BC Calssic.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

34-1, right? Of the other two, Gentlemen was the first to give way, and was well, well beaten that day. I don't recall the winner's margin, but it was a few lengths at least.

What a dank day at Belmont.

Yes he was. Gentleman was lame in the test barn afterwards. I think Siphon was in there too? Skip Away didnt look too good in the paddock before the race either.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I agree that some were not fashionably bred, but compared to the others listed above, Behrens (Pleasant Colony), Will's Way (Easy Goer) and Captain Bodgit (Saint Ballado) certainly fit the bill. Starting out, they were certainly no less fashionably bred than horses like Indian Charlie (In Excess), Valid Expectations (Valid Appeal), Northern Afleet (Afleet), and Smoke Glacken (Two Punch).

Horses like Distorted Humor, Arch, and Elusive Quality all began their careers at stud fees in the $10,000 range, so it's not like they were getting bred to top mares when they started out. They just outperformed their more recognizable (from a racing perspective) contemporaries in the breeding shed and, as a result, are now getting the top mares that they earned the hard way.

Finally, the Thoroughbred Times Stallion Directory lists Captain Bodgit as standing in Canada.

Northern Afleet should not be included with IC, VE, or SG. Outside of Afleet Alex he has no top class runners. He ranked in the 60's on last years sire list. he is fair at best as a sire

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

All mares are earned that way, I guess.

well, yeah, that's true...

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cardus

34-1, right? Of the other two, Gentlemen was the first to give way, and was well, well beaten that day. I don't recall the winner's margin, but it was a few lengths at least.

What a dank day at Belmont.

Actually, it was the other way around. Gentlemen, who gave Skip Away a brief scare in the Woodward, finally put that one away in early stretch of the JCGC, only to get run down by Wagon Limit.

Gentlemen was still 5 lengths in front of Skip Away at the wire.