Top CASTRATORS

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Yeah. These are the same males taking pills or getting implants for bigger cocks and pills so they can get it up so they can bang their UGLY wives. Yet, it's 'healthier' to geld horses. Get real.
And, in 19th century France they were gelding young boys who played the female roles in operas rather than just using women.

The balls are there naturally. It thus follows that it's not 'healthier' for them not to be there.

Dangerously close to Sumitas level, dude.

[Oaklawnfan]

Isn't gelding linked to a ridgeling in some respect? Like to ease the discomfort for the horse?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

Dangerously close to Sumitas level, dude.

I can only imagine some of the HALL of FAME castrators, GP Odom or Burton Cocks doing some PED or Viagra commercials.

"Hello, I'm Burton Cocks, and I can't get it up, HOWEVER, it's perfectly fine to GELD horses because it's HEALTHIER for them. Why let the testicles produce TESTOSTERONE naturally when you can just cut them off and inject the horse with synthetic TESTOSTERONE. Look what it did for Floyd Landis"

No excuse for cruelty, no matter how you spin it.

[DogsUp]

Why do they castrate them at all? Can't they give them an operation that stops the flow of sperm like they do in humans (vasectomy)? This would allow sperm production and the production of testosterone.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I've worked on the backstretch, and while STUDS can be a handful, there's nothing more depressing than being around a sad, old gelding. Like a junkie, it awaits its next refreshing shot of testosterone.

This paragraph is riddled with understatement, ridiculous athropomorphism, and gross exaggeration. Intact horses can not only be a handful, they can also be downright dangerous (ie the veterinarian who recently was killed by a Morgan stallion). As far as their mental state, even if one could ascertain the emotions geldings harbor, who's to say its brought on by the absence of their testicles (as opposed to the lifestyle its subjected to as a racehorse in general)? Furthermore, not all geldings receive injections of anabolic steroids, much less on a regular basis.

I realize there are 'traditional' ways of doing things on the racetrack. Some of these just need to change.

Any industry that deals with the utilization of animals for the benefit of man whether it be for entertainment, food, or fiber presupposes the notion that mankind has an inherent right to 'dominion over animals', which essentially entails stripping it of its natural tendencies and modifying its existence to facilitate its exploitation. If that is at the core of your dilemma, I don't see how singling out ball-lopping will somehow give you peace of mind. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your stance on the idea of racing horses at all.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

This paragraph is riddled with understatement, ridiculous athropomorphism, and gross exaggeration. Intact horses can not only be a handful, they can also be downright dangerous (ie the veterinarian who recently was killed by a Morgan stallion). As far as their mental state, even if one could ascertain the emotions geldings harbor, who's to say its brought on by the absence of their testicles (as opposed to the lifestyle its subjected to as a racehorse in general)? Furthermore, not all geldings receive injections of anabolic steroids, much less on a regular basis.



Any industry that deals with the utilization of animals for the benefit of man whether it be for entertainment, food, or fiber presupposes the notion that mankind has an inherent right to 'dominion over animals', which essentially entails stripping it of its natural tendencies and modifying its existence to facilitate its exploitation. If that is at the core of your dilemma, I don't see how singling out ball-lopping will somehow give you peace of mind. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your stance on the idea of racing horses at all.

So, the rational solution, then, is to just castrate without regard to the individual case?

I mean there aren't any trainers out there abusing this, are there?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

So, the rational solution, then, is to just castrate without regard to the individual case?

I mean there aren't any trainers out there abusing this, are there?

Again, unless you have personally worked for the 3 trainers you named, you make assumptions. How do you know that they are not considered on an individual basis? None of the 3 you mentioned typically deal with well-bred stock and 2 handle a lot of claiming types.

A more head-on approach to this discussion would be to put you in the hot seat. What are indications are acceptable to you when considering castrating a horse?

[hockey2315]

Hough has had a few well bred ones for Robsham. . . DC and Sargent Seattle off the top of my head. . . Didn't geld either one of them but DC only raced once with him and Sargent Seattle ran really big in his debut and then sucked in his only other start.

[pgiaco]

Originally Posted by Oaklawnfan

Isn't gelding linked to a ridgeling in some respect? Like to ease the discomfort for the horse?

In some cases. The horse I ran today, Marina Market was a ridgeling and his undescended testicle was causing him a lot of discomfort, hence his descent into the claiming ranks. I claimed him thinking this might be a cause for his deteriorating performances. I asked if they could only remove the undescended testicle, but the vet said no way, at least in his case. After he was cut most of his hind end issues cleared up, and I dare say he is a much improved animal. No, he doesn't wait around for his steriod shot (doesn't get any) and he's much happier because his hind end is not hurting. He is also a LOT kinder to be around now. He used to be a stone killer in the barn, now at least you can get near him and he will only try to take a small piece out of your arm and not try to kick you through the wall of his stall.

On another note, I wish I had gelded Cape of Storms, he is very studdish and real tough in the barn and downright stupid sometimes which is a bad combination. He managed to hurt himself in the barn and now he's laid up for 3 months.

I guess it's a rather long winded way of saying I don't believe in routine gelding, but there are some cases where it is beneficial to the horse and all involved.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by pgiaco

I guess it's a rather long winded way of saying I don't believe in routine gelding, but there are some cases where it is beneficial to the horse and all involved.

I'm sure if we looked into your stable, we wouldn't see a majority of geldings (amongst the males).

I don't think the same applies to the trainers I mentioned initially, and certainly many others I left out.

Maybe someone with access to stats can dig up the data on the 'top castrators'.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by DogsUp

Why do they castrate them at all? Can't they give them an operation that stops the flow of sperm like they do in humans (vasectomy)? This would allow sperm production and the production of testosterone.

The cessation of the flow of sperm does nothing to make a male horse more manageable or less "interested" in females, as a man with a vasectomy will tell you.
Not every gelding is given testosterone and certainly it is not done in non racing settings.
Taking away the interest in sex makes a horse more manageable and it's anthropomorphic to assume that a horse misses what he never had a chance to use. It's like assuming that a mare who is unable to have a foal for some biological reason longs for motherhood whenever she sees a mare and her foal roming in a pasture. She has no inborn concept of "motherhood."

[largo1]

There's a wise old horseman's saying,,,"He's a nice stallion. He'd make an excellent gelding". There's a lot of truth in that.

[pgiaco]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I'm sure if we looked into your stable, we wouldn't see a majority of geldings (amongst the males).

I don't think the same applies to the trainers I mentioned initially, and certainly many others I left out.

Maybe someone with access to stats can dig up the data on the 'top castrators'.

TFM, I understand your point. It is ridiculous to geld as a routine. Like anything else you have to treat the horse as an individual.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by largo1

There's a wise old horseman's saying,,,"He's a nice stallion. He'd make an excellent gelding". There's a lot of truth in that.

stop male haten yo/

[largo1]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

stop male haten yo/

Yo, I said "a wise old horseman's saying", not a *GREAT* idea me and the girls came up with one night while out having adult beverages at The Red Dog Saloon!!!!

[blackthroatedwind]

The title of this thread reminds me of " Carnal Knowledge " and Jack Nicholson's slide show " Ball busters on parade. "

[Linny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The title of this thread reminds me of " Carnal Knowledge " and Jack Nicholson's slide show " Ball busters on parade. "

I logged on to this thread because I thought it was about ME!

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Linny

I logged on to this thread because I thought it was about ME!

You're just sorry you didn't make Jack's slide show.

[Linny]

I was 8 years old then and not yet an official ball buster, except close friends...

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

geldings are generally lighter than colts which is beneficial for soundness.

My wife can produce huge happy geldings.
(Not actually by way of birth)

We also have giant cats though.

The squirrels around our house (they are so
cute why dont we put out some more corn) are
the largest rodents on earth.

If anyone has an animal that needs some beef,
send them to us.

and of course she gelded me early on, after the progeny... I became quite docile