Very impressive 2yo at HP

[Indian Charlie]

I just went back and keyed in on the third place finisher. That horse seems to have a lot of upside, as he ran like he was retarded for most of the race.

I'd probably wait on that horse to bet him. Maybe after another start or once he goes two turns.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Be wary of debuters that break slow. He may break much sharper next time, and be very close to the pace. Given his bullet works (a 3f in :33+ even!), he could have some front-running ability. You may actually see him tire down the lane next out.

As far as the quality of the field, a good barometer (and actually an example of what I mentioned above) is Nochangenweather, who was 4th beaten 4 lengths after rallying smartly around the far turn before entering the stretch very wide and hanging down the lane. He ran similarly in his debut, finishing 5th beaten 3 by some other O'Neill horse. Next out, he broke running and was gunned to the lead where he set testing fractions, got away from a pace rival into the stretch before hitting a brick wall and again finished 5th beaten 3. I forget who won that race, but obviously, none of the colts from those maiden races have done anything to suggest they are a standout amongst the CA division. That Pete Miller horse that won the little stakes race probably still has to be considered the top.

Well the next time Street Hero runs in a 3F race, let me know. I am betting my paycheck on him.

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I hate giving labels on horses who win FT impressively. I will determine after 3-4 races afterm if the horse is the real deal. We saw a flop in Mr. Mistofelees as the 1-5 fav.

The next time SS STONE runs I am betting against cause he is going to be way overbet. If O'neil is smart I would put this horse in an ALW NX1 next out instead in 2 yo Stakes.

The stakes are alw nx1. Everyone's only broken their maidens. It's only June.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Be wary of debuters that break slow. He may break much sharper next time, and be very close to the pace. Given his bullet works (a 3f in :33+ even!), he could have some front-running ability. You may actually see him tire down the lane next out.

As far as the quality of the field, a good barometer (and actually an example of what I mentioned above) is Nochangenweather, who was 4th beaten 4 lengths after rallying smartly around the far turn before entering the stretch very wide and hanging down the lane. He ran similarly in his debut, finishing 5th beaten 3 by some other O'Neill horse. Next out, he broke running and was gunned to the lead where he set testing fractions, got away from a pace rival into the stretch before hitting a brick wall and again finished 5th beaten 3. I forget who won that race, but obviously, none of the colts from those maiden races have done anything to suggest they are a standout amongst the CA division. That Pete Miller horse that won the little stakes race probably still has to be considered the top.

The Pete Miller horse (Backbackbackgone) will be on the shelf for a little while. He's got a shin. He should be back in a few months.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

S.S. Stone, in the 9th at HP today.

Well worth watching.

He's a smallish son of birdstone that cost 160k and won in 103.77. I really like the way he extended himself once he pushed through that hole.

Is there a large son of Birdstone anywhere? Here is a thought get a English Channel filly and breed her to Birdstone maybe you could get the fastest pony in land?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The Pete Miller horse (Backbackbackgone) will be on the shelf for a little while. He's got a shin. He should be back in a few months.

That's a shame. Good luck to him then. He'll be next year's Sea of Pleasure...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

That's a shame. Good luck to him then. He'll be next year's Sea of Pleasure...

Instead of pointing for the Del Mar Futurity, they can point for the Hollywood Futurity in December.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Instead of pointing for the Del Mar Futurity, they can point for the Hollywood Futurity in December.

Think he'll route, especially off a layoff?

I'd target the San Miguel or if he's ready, the Prevue and wouldn't hold my breath beyond anything else. A more conservative approach like the one used on Bob Black Jack would probably be more prudent. Of course, despite this, look how that turned out...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Think he'll route, especially off a layoff?

I'd target the San Miguel or if he's ready, the Prevue and wouldn't hold my breath beyond anything else. A more conservative approach like the one used on Bob Black Jack would probably be more prudent. Of course, despite this, look how that turned out...

I wasn't suggesting that his first race back would be the Hollywood Futurity. He'll probably be back by Oak Tree. He'll probably have time for two preps before the Futurity.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I wasn't suggesting that he would return in the Futurity. He'll probably be back by Oak Tree. He'll probably have time for two preps before the Futurity.

That makes sense, too. Mostly I'm sidestepping the issue that he doesn't appear bred to route, but anything possible when they're just 2yos. Precocity goes a long way (no pun intended)...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

That makes sense, too. Mostly I'm sidestepping the issue that he doesn't appear bred to route, but anything possible when they're just 2yos. Precocity goes a long way (no pun intended)...

He's by Put It Back and he's out of a Defrere mare. I don't know much about Defrere. He is by Deputy Minister out of a Secretariat mare.

I don't exactly how far Backbackbackgone wants to run but I don't see any reason why he couldn't get 1 1/16 miles.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

He's by Put It Back and he's out of a Defrere mare. I don't know much about Defrere. He is by Deputy Minister out of a Secretariat mare.

I don't exactly how far Backbackbackgone wants to run but I don't see any reason why he couldn't get 1 1/16 miles.

Defrere was a full brother to Dehere ('Defrere' means 'brother' in France, 'Garscon' means 'boy').

Put It Back's best horses are sprinters, though a case could be made that Lost In The Fog, given his victories over 7f, could handle a middle distance had he been given a chance. Plus that Clement horse that won the Bing Crosby might have won one of those two turn Florida Stallion Series races as a baby. Not sure if Smokey Stover went beyond 6.5f in his career.

Still, the Pete Miller factor has me guessing he either won't stay, or simply, won't stay sound...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Put It Back's best horses are sprinters, though a case could be made that Lost In The Fog, given his victories over 7f, could handle a middle distance had he been given a chance.

Lost in the Fog was by Lost Soldier.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Lost in the Fog was by Lost Soldier.

Yeah, but he had the same connections as Smokey Stover, so my point is still invalid.

At least cancer isn't high on the list as to why this horse won't make it anymore.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Gilchrist and the late Aleo do have a nice undefeated filly in High Resolve by Put It Back.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Defrere was a full brother to Dehere ('Defrere' means 'brother' in France, 'Garscon' means 'boy').

Put It Back's best horses are sprinters, though a case could be made that Lost In The Fog, given his victories over 7f, could handle a middle distance had he been given a chance. Plus that Clement horse that won the Bing Crosby might have won one of those two turn Florida Stallion Series races as a baby. Not sure if Smokey Stover went beyond 6.5f in his career.

Still, the Pete Miller factor has me guessing he either won't stay, or simply, won't stay sound...

Hey Byrn is by Put It Back. He has won at both 1 1/8 miles and 1 3/16 miles. I really think Backbackbackgone will be able to get at least 1 1/16 miles. I don't know if you belive in dosage at all. His dosage index is 3.00.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Hey Byrn is by Put It Back. He has won at both 1 1/8 miles and 1 3/16 miles. I really think Backbackbackgone will be able to get at least 1 1/16 miles. I don't know if you belive in dosage at all. His dosage index is 3.00.

Yeah. That's true. What happened to that horse? Did he run in the Preakness?

Maybe if DaHoss puts a picture up of Hey Byrn as his avatar me and JCNickLacheybackstreet can get in synch and figure it out...

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

LOL! The third place finisher will be a plodder. Yes he ran a fast third but did you see how much espimiza was pushing him? He responded but he is another bet against for me next out.

I am not impressed by Street Hero. Yes he makes impressive moves but they last for a furloung at best. Espinoza probaly moved to early yet this horse burned money for three in a row

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Be wary of debuters that break slow. He may break much sharper next time, and be very close to the pace. Given his bullet works (a 3f in :33+ even!), he could have some front-running ability. You may actually see him tire down the lane next out.

As far as the quality of the field, a good barometer (and actually an example of what I mentioned above) is Nochangenweather, who was 4th beaten 4 lengths after rallying smartly around the far turn before entering the stretch very wide and hanging down the lane. He ran similarly in his debut, finishing 5th beaten 3 by some other O'Neill horse. Next out, he broke running and was gunned to the lead where he set testing fractions, got away from a pace rival into the stretch before hitting a brick wall and again finished 5th beaten 3. I forget who won that race, but obviously, none of the colts from those maiden races have done anything to suggest they are a standout amongst the CA division. That Pete Miller horse that won the little stakes race probably still has to be considered the top.

Rollo you were wrong about this horse.I watched him one time(jcs11204 wanted to know about him,) and told you he was good. You said to beware etc., but you can't do what he did 1st time without being really good. He overcame the mediocre trainer to take the Norfolk. I don't know why somebody hasn't bought him from this guy.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

LOL! The third place finisher will be a plodder. Yes he ran a fast third but did you see how much espimiza was pushing him? He responded but he is another bet against for me next out.

Plodder took the grade 1.