Grand Couturier Wow!!

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

that was a hell of a run..what a turn of foot..hes gonna be very dangerous at breeders cup time .soft or hard turf!!

[GPK]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

that was a hell of a run..what a turn of foot..hes gonn be very dangerous at breeders cup time .soft or hard turf!!

Matt...I thought it was quite visually impressive as well. I made note on another thread about something I would like to hear others thoughts on. I know the pace scenarios and the footing were obviously very different from the Monmouth Stakes, but what, if anything, did we learn about Big Brown and where he ranks as a turf horse. He was all out to hold off Proudinsky and GC EASILY disposed of him yesterday.

[blackthroatedwind]

You can't judge a horse by its performance on a course like the one at Belmont yesterday. Obviously Grand Couturier is a very nice horse, and surely he has a chance in the BC ( depending on Euro involvement ), but the differences between the turf courses at Belmont and Santa Anita yesterday were staggering. It is highly unlikely Grand Couturier will come anywhere close to replicating yesterday's performance on the rock hard turf expected on BC Day.

But, it would certainly be great to see Bobby Ribaudo win a BC race.

[the_fat_man]

This horse has ZERO shot in the BC.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You can't judge a horse by its performance on a course like the one at Belmont yesterday. Obviously Grand Couturier is a very nice horse, and surely he has a chance in the BC ( depending on Euro involvement ), but the differences between the turf courses at Belmont and Santa Anita yesterday were staggering. It is highly unlikely Grand Couturier will come anywhere close to replicating yesterday's performance on the rock hard turf expected on BC Day.

But, it would certainly be great to see Bobby Ribaudo win a BC race.

Bill Mott echoed the above sentiment regarding Dynaforce as well... though he added that he loves the Santa Anita turf as it is..

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

that was a hell of a run..what a turn of foot..hes gonn be very dangerous at breeders cup time .soft or hard turf!!

i wouldn't go that far.

[zippyneedsawin]

As BTW alluded to, the Euro involvement will play a major role in determining whether GC has any chance in the BC. Either way, he's likely a huge underlay now, and a good bet against.

[gamblin4ever]

If it rains out west and softens the turf up some he'll move up the ladder some but right now i'm liking Red Rocks out of the American horses.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

If it rains out west and softens the turf up some he'll move up the ladder some but right now i'm liking Red Rocks out of the American horses.

Where is that horse? For a horse they made a point of keeping him in the US rather than returning to his base in Europe, he sure hasn't come out a lot. Actually, he hasn't come out at all. Yet he was mentioned for the Sword Dancer, the Monmouth Stakes, and the Joe Hirsch.

Given that he's owned by Paul Reddam, who loves to run his horses, I don't take any of this as a good omen as far as his BC chances are concerned.

Or are they waiting for the Canadian International?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I read it yesterday and forgot to say something. Like has been mentioned it's kind of tough to take a whole lot away from a race in a bog, but, it does point out what others said after the Big brown race, Proudinsky? He's an okay grass horse, but in the grand scheme of things pretty ordinary.

I think something that needs to be mentioned is that the Monmouth Stakes was 9f and the Joe Hirsch was 12f. Proudinsky has been running middle distances during his US career and he was in contention until the early stretch yesterday.

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Where is that horse? For a horse they made a point of keeping him in the US rather than returning to his base in Europe, he sure hasn't come out a lot. Actually, he hasn't come out at all. Yet he was mentioned for the Sword Dancer, the Monmouth Stakes, and the Joe Hirsch.

Given that he's owned by Paul Reddam, who loves to run his horses, I don't take any of this as a good omen as far as his BC chances are concerned.

Or are they waiting for the Canadian International?

I think they believe he runs best fresh, so are keeping him for the BC..
EDIT - just to say I really enjoyed all the G1s last night, impressed with this fella, but dont think he has suddenly improved to be a live threat in the Turf!

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by brockguy

I think they believe he runs best fresh, so are keeping him for the BC..
EDIT - just to say I really enjoyed all the G1s last night, impressed with this fella, but dont think he has suddenly improved to be a live threat in the Turf!

Brutal. He's won off long layoffs when making his first start back in modest company (his PPs show maiden and allowance wins off significant layoffs). But it will be nearly 4 months if he shows up on BC day.

I realize he won the BC off 2 months rest, but this can't be entirely by design.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

he still sucks at 9 furlongs or 12 furlongs right?

Sure, my point though is that trying to use his Hirsch performance as a barometer for Big Brown is dubious because (a) he was out of his element (like Donny) and (b) he was kinda tossed in there as an afterthought anyways.

That was someone else's suggestion, by the way, and not yours.

[Bobby Fischer]

He is one of the best of the true 12 furlong American turf horses.

Actually what the hell does that even mean?

[miraja2]

I realize that I'm worse than a broken record on this subject, but when a horse wins a G1 race by 10+ lengths, I think it pretty much sucks that the conversation about him is entirely devoted to discussing what it means for the BC. Who the hell cares?
Discussing the merits of the horse in general, or of his performance yesterday makes sense to me. Discussing it only in terms of what exactly it means for some stupid race that is weeks away does not.

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I realize that I'm worse than a broken record on this subject, but when a horse wins a G1 race by 10+ lengths, I think it pretty much sucks that the conversation about him is entirely devoted to discussing what it means for the BC. Who the hell cares?
Discussing the merits of the horse in general, or of his performance yesterday makes sense to me. Discussing it only in terms of what exactly it means for some stupid race that is weeks away does not.

he's not that good a horse..

Originally Posted by miraja2

I realize that I'm worse than a broken record on this subject, but when a horse wins a G1 race by 10+ lengths, I think it pretty much sucks that the conversation about him is entirely devoted to discussing what it means for the BC. Who the hell cares?
Discussing the merits of the horse in general, or of his performance yesterday makes sense to me. Discussing it only in terms of what exactly it means for some stupid race that is weeks away does not.

The BC Turf is a stupid race?
Tell the Euros that come over to cash in.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The BC Turf is a stupid race?
Tell the Euros that come over to cash in.

As far as I am concerned it is just as stupid as all of the other BC races.....which means extremely stupid.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by brockguy

he's not that good a horse..

I've never thought much of him either, but that performance yesterday impressed me (and shocked me) quite a bit. I'm not sure he'll ever run back to it, but I thought it was a hell of a performance.