Bailout bill fails

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

Sad to say but true.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

http://www.amazon.com/Are-We-Rome-Em...2719907&sr=8-1

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Remember how the sissies reacted to the anthrax scare at the capitol? How is this any different? They can't get anything done, yet people still fervently support their beloved party of choice.

In my lifetime I will witness the fall of the American Empire. Hell...it could be in the next 5 years. We're being governed by morons.

Isn't that the truth. I think that if this wasn't an election year things would be much different.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you don't pay a car note, own a house with a mortgage? i have very little debt myself, but i have some all the same. you can make debt work for you-i mean, who can save the tens of thousands of dollars it takes to buy a house so as to avoid a mortgage?
and go tell all the autoworkers they're all out of work, as no one can borrow. yeah, that'll make their day.
and everyone who has a 401k is in the stock market to some degree.

I am not against people getting loans, but they want to have the same scum (that made these bad loans) be the ones in charge of the loaning. That is an example of repeating the same mistake(which is the definition of the word "stupid.") That's the very 1st thing wrong with this plan. No accountability whatsoever. Give the same crooks more money to loan. No, miss "I want less Gov't," I am not interested in saving the stock market. This a-s-s you voted for wanted to have people putting their social security money in the stock market. He was wrong. Now he has zero crediblity on economic issues whatsoever.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Sad to say but true.

And let me really offend some people now.

The Greatest Generation and their children are to blame. They let this s.hit happen because they feel entitled to do whatever they please. Future generations be damned.

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't really like these debates, but isn't the gist of what SCUDS is saying true? Isn't fiscal irresponsibility by America what pretty much got us into this situation?

I'm basically a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm all for helping out those that need help, but how would this bailout necessarily fall into that category?

[GPK]

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...4005F4169DA%7D

[GPK]

How they voted...

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...E8753D34363%7D

anyone notice I voted yes??

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't really like these debates, but isn't the gist of what SCUDS is saying true? Isn't fiscal irresponsibility by America what pretty much got us into this situation?

I'm basically a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm all for helping out those that need help, but how would this bailout necessarily fall into that category?

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Over 90 democrats voted no. Pelosi had to make a partisan speech before the vote.

actually... according to the link you posted... 60% of Dems voted yes and only 1/3 of Repub's voted yes...

Does that make bush a closet Dem like I've always believed?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

[CSC]

I hate to say it as I am a Investor, but someone had to pay for the outlandish policies by some of these sub prime lending companies. Is it possible to feel bad but good at the same time...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

Thanks. Makes some real sense.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I am not against people getting loans, but they want to have the same scum (that made these bad loans) be the ones in charge of the loaning. That is an example of repeating the same mistake(which is the definition of the word "stupid.")

Actually the major banks that are still standing survived because THEY DIDNT do the crazy lending for the most part.

Bank of America, Chase, Wells and Citi DID NOT offer neg am loans which were the worst. Wells dipped their feet into some subprime but not to the level of the investment banks that are tumbling left are right.

Of those banks named, the only real exposure they have left is to high LTV mezz financing and some ALT A.

In plain English, these banks didnt do they bad lending for the most part.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I am not against people getting loans, but they want to have the same scum (that made these bad loans) be the ones in charge of the loaning. That is an example of repeating the same mistake(which is the definition of the word "stupid.") That's the very 1st thing wrong with this plan. No accountability whatsoever. Give the same crooks more money to loan. No, miss "I want less Gov't," I am not interested in saving the stock market. This a-s-s you voted for wanted to have people putting their social security money in the stock market. He was wrong. Now he has zero crediblity on economic issues whatsoever.

it's still not that simple. you have the lender, and the person who sought the loan. then you have the lender who then sells the mortgages as an asset to an investor. then you have the loan fail, the bank stuck with the house, and an investor who 'owns' a note on a house that's worth far less than the house itself. now mulitply that by hundreds of thousands. so, banks retreat and tighten the credit market. except for those with excellent credit, loans will not occur. multiply that by millions. you've just cut off the spending power of tens of millions of people.
so, ignore the problem and tell everyone to change their habits-that solves no problem. well, it won't matter if nothing is done, as so many people will be out of work, they won't be able to buy anything anyway.

part of the bailout was supposed to include more regulatory measures as well.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't really like these debates, but isn't the gist of what SCUDS is saying true? Isn't fiscal irresponsibility by America what pretty much got us into this situation?

I'm basically a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm all for helping out those that need help, but how would this bailout necessarily fall into that category?

yeah, the kernel in that post is true, it is rampant spending/borrowing that got us into this mess.
however, we have to find a way OUT of the mess, or it will only get tremendously worse.
do we need to spend 700 billion to do it? that i'm not so sure of.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

I agree with about 90% of this, which is about 85% more than most of the things for me in this area of the forum.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

yeah, what he said.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The companies that made the bad loans have already been hurt and they are paying dearly for the fiscal irresponsibility that lead most of them into the situation. The problem is that there are no investors for very good, creditable consumers/businesses due to the issues and problems in the market place. Without the government stepping in and buying a lot of these investments, good honest businesses and consumers will not be able to obtain the financing that they normally could get. The government could actually profit by buying up these securities and some estimates are anywhere from $1-3 trillion yes trillion dollars in profit, by buying and holding these investments; however this depends on what price they buy them at. There is a liquidity crisis in the market that is affecting all financial institutions no matter if they ethically or unethically offered financing. The bailout is not all about letting bad businesses out of their fiscal irresponsible decisions.

In your opinion, does the federal government belong in the market place though?