Midnight Lute Retired

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Slight change of subject - I'm thinking the concept of "commercial" may start to be viewed differently over the next years. I'm sure the foal crop numbers are going to drop significantly. People can no longer afford to carry any marginal stock. You can get all the cheap horses you want, for less than the cost of "cheap", nowadays, it seems.

Not only will the sale prospect have to have a solid pedigree, but I'd think fairly good chance to make money on the track, rather than only in the shed. I think people may go back to looking at the potential of earning one's keep on the track as the most realistic "residual value", versus "we can always breed it if it doesn't run".

Imagine that - going back to buying racehorses for their potential on the track as racehorses, rather than for "afterwards"

What say you that buy and sell for a living now? Chuck?

The whole thing is too nebulous to figure out though I will say if you have cash you can get a whole lot more horse now for the same money than you could a year ago.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

He's got a few horses running in North America from what I have seen, he's probably turned out to be only a mediocre sire, however I do see his name pop up seemingly alot in the past performances. Yeah his market value is on the downside, I'll concede that point.

He is ranked 13th on the stallion list in california this year. He was 15th last year. In California. I will allow you to draw your own conclusions.

[ELA]

I would have to think -- after all of the discussion about Big Brown, him having bad feet, and passing that on to his offspring, etc. -- that people here would be (more) concerned about Midnight Lute as a stallion. With this horse, his problems went far beyond "just bad feet" and that is much more to be concerned about -- right?

Thanks.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

I would have to think -- after all of the discussion about Big Brown, him having bad feet, and passing that on to his offspring, etc. -- that people here would be (more) concerned about Midnight Lute as a stallion. With this horse, his problems went far beyond "just bad feet" and that is much more to be concerned about -- right?

Thanks.

Eric

I dont like him much. His breathing issues are troublesome, his pedigree doesnt scream stallion, the fact he has run I think 14 times in 3 years isnt great, and honestly closing sprinters are typically overrated as stallions. think Lit de justice! or Rubiano or Aldebaran. Plus he is too big. But he also isnt going to stand for $75k like Big Brown is either.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

it should, but I seriously doubt it does.

FWIW Candytuft (midnight Lutes dam) is a very correct mare, slightly above average size with good bone. It's one of the reasons that they took a risk in sending her to Real Quiet--since breeders were warned not to send anything to him that wasn't pretty well made.

I would breed to Mid Night Lute without a seconds thought. He is a monster and a dam good looking horse beside being fast as sheat. I also think that horses that overcome and run thru there issues have a level of toughness that could be beneficial.

Also Real Quiet is a fairly good broody stallion.... If he was 10k I would suggest our small filly would be an OK match.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont like him much. His breathing issues are troublesome, his pedigree doesnt scream stallion, the fact he has run I think 14 times in 3 years isnt great, and honestly closing sprinters are typically overrated as stallions. think Lit de justice! or Rubiano or Aldebaran. Plus he is too big. But he also isnt going to stand for $75k like Big Brown is either.

You really think more then 20 mares will really pay 75k.. I suggest if he sees 125 mares 80% will be covered at substantially below 75k..

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is ranked 13th on the stallion list in california this year. He was 15th last year. In California. I will allow you to draw your own conclusions.

His lack of popularity out East shows from his crop sizes - first one 60, then 51, then 64, then 52 in the year his first foals would be 2yos. Fell to 17 the next year and to 10 from his last year in Kentucky. His first Calbred crop are 4yos this year, all 36 of them. Raw numbers, like sire lists, reward quantity, not quality.

It always amazes me how people expect horses who were sprinters to sire a lot of 2yo winners, even if they themselves didn't really excell until they were more mature, especially when, like Lit de Justice (and Midnight Lute?), they were bred to be stayers.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

His lack of popularity out East shows from his crop sizes - first one 60, then 51, then 64, then 52 in the year his first foals would be 2yos. Fell to 17 the next year and to 10 from his last year in Kentucky. His first Calbred crop are 4yos this year, all 36 of them. Raw numbers, like sire lists, reward quantity, not quality.

It always amazes me how people expect horses who were sprinters to sire a lot of 2yo winners, even if they themselves didn't really excell until they were more mature, especially when, like Lit de Justice (and Midnight Lute?), they were bred to be stayers.

He is 18 and has never had more than a grade 3 winner and I think he only had 2 or 3 of those.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I would breed to Mid Night Lute without a seconds thought. He is a monster and a dam good looking horse beside being fast as sheat. I also think that horses that overcome and run thru there issues have a level of toughness that could be beneficial.

Also Real Quiet is a fairly good broody stallion.... If he was 10k I would suggest our small filly would be an OK match.

Horses that overcome are usually the worst stallions.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

His lack of popularity out East shows from his crop sizes - first one 60, then 51, then 64, then 52 in the year his first foals would be 2yos. Fell to 17 the next year and to 10 from his last year in Kentucky. His first Calbred crop are 4yos this year, all 36 of them. Raw numbers, like sire lists, reward quantity, not quality.

It always amazes me how people expect horses who were sprinters to sire a lot of 2yo winners, even if they themselves didn't really excell until they were more mature, especially when, like Lit de Justice (and Midnight Lute?), they were bred to be stayers.

Didn't Adena Springs have him first? They have a deep roster of Stallians that they kept adding to and he probably fell through the cracks when he didn't produce anything of significance.

[freddymo]

[quote=Cannon Shell]Horses that overcome are usually the worst stallions.[/QUO

I guess you thing Ghostzapper will be a bust

[CSC]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I would breed to Mid Night Lute without a seconds thought. He is a monster and a dam good looking horse beside being fast as sheat. I also think that horses that overcome and run thru there issues have a level of toughness that could be beneficial.

Also Real Quiet is a fairly good broody stallion.... If he was 10k I would suggest our small filly would be an OK match.

Who would have knew Tapit would be the leading freshman sire for 08?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Horses that overcome are usually the worst stallions.

Candy Ride had his problems, his has been pretty live. Perhaps more than anything he and Lute are most simular in they ran sporadically but when they ran healthy they put up numbers that you don't often see. 120+ beyers.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by CSC

Candy Ride had his problems, his has been pretty live. Perhaps more than anything he and Lute are most simular in they ran sporadically but when they ran healthy they put up numbers that you don't often see. 120+ beyers.

Not quite the same. Candy Ride, as an first-half half of the year 3yo in Argentina, Sept. to Dec., won his maiden, stepped up to a G1 vs other 3yos, the Clasico San Isidro, winning by 8, then stepped up again to run in the big international mile race in the Carlos Pellegrini meeting against his elders and beat them by 8. (This is roughly equivalent to a 3yo winning the Met Mile.) This caught the eye of overseas buyers and the colt was sold to North America. He was given 6 months to acclimatize and came back in mid-2003, when he won an allowance race, the American H (G2) and the Pacific Classic (G1). Only THEN was his career interrupted by physical problems. The earlier gap was due to the change of hemispheres.

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Horses that overcome are usually the worst stallions.[/QUO

I guess you thing Ghostzapper will be a bust

He didnt overcome

[richard burch]

truly a great horse.

[Diver67]

Gimme 3 Lutes for 1 Big Brown. No brainer.

The Lutester was bred to be a router and he finished a close second to Awesome Gem in the San Fernando at 8.5 furlongs. I'm not going to disagree with Baffert that his talent was superior; he's an outstanding physical specimen (unlike e.g. Smarty) and I think he could well outsire his pedigree. And remember that although Real Quiet is not "successful," he's sired two multiple GI winners. (Pussycat Doll the other.)

A scary moment last summer (2007) on Pacific Classic day, the workouts early morning; the announcer said "Now finishing at five furlongs, that's Midnight Lute. . ." But there were 2 horses maybe too close to the rail, and Midnight Lute practically ran them over. . .I closed my eyes, the crowd gasped, my friend said "Its okay, just a rider down."

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Diver67

Gimme 3 Lutes for 1 Big Brown. No brainer.

The Lutester was bred to be a router and he finished a close second to Awesome Gem in the San Fernando at 8.5 furlongs. I'm not going to disagree with Baffert that his talent was superior; he's an outstanding physical specimen (unlike e.g. Smarty) and I think he could well outsire his pedigree. And remember that although Real Quiet is not "successful," he's sired two multiple GI winners. (Pussycat Doll the other.)

A scary moment last summer (2007) on Pacific Classic day, the workouts early morning; the announcer said "Now finishing at five furlongs, that's Midnight Lute. . ." But there were 2 horses maybe too close to the rail, and Midnight Lute practically ran them over. . .I closed my eyes, the crowd gasped, my friend said "Its okay, just a rider down."

I didn't know you were friends with The Fat Man.