HEGARTY: November handle down 9.7%

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Huh?

TFM has a point

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by GBBob

First..minor point, but ironically, this is probably a good time for this to be happening. While the ADW situation is certainly contributing to the handle decline, it is probably affecting a lesser percentage than if business were booming, relatively speaking.

Second, the above analysis just isn't comparable. Retailers control their own profit structure when they sell on line.Even if they sell through Amazon or a third party, they still determine their profit margin. To Steve's point, this fight is because horseman, tracks and ADW suppliers DO understand what is at stake. It is narrowminded to just suggest that the Horseman are at fault for not accepting what the tracks and ADWs want. There will always be a symbiotic relationship between the three factors, but for the horseman ( and we're not talking Pletcher and Assmussen here) do you really think they are losing sleep because the bettor can't wager on CD? If the deal in place doesn't make financial sense in the first place, then why continue to support a losing cause?

No, I don't think any horseman really care who can and who cannot bet on what and where. I'm not even saying it would be nice if they did. But, no symbiotic relationship can survive long term when the brunt of neglect is put on the consumer. That can't be denied. You cannot continue to kick the dog in the head and just expect it will return every time...just to likely get kicked again.

That's the issue. The parties that squabble DO understand the importance and proceed to bungle the best way to take advantage of it and the ideas to move to an end goal have included high levels of exclusion and lost money. If those parties with their hands in the pot don't lose sleep over it now, that's fine, but if it continues, they likely will.

[joeydb]

They need to agree on the long term arrangement, and soon. If they don't, the game will be imperiled to a degree for a long period in the future.

As Carl Sagan used to say about the U.S. and U.S.S.R with regard to nuclear weapons: "It's like two sworn enemies standing waist-deep in a room full of gasoline arguing over how many matches they each have."

The analogy fits in that none of the vital participants are concerned with the health of the whole industry enough to have it impact their own profit motive, and that produces an irrational result.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

No, I don't think any horseman really care who can and who cannot bet on what and where. I'm not even saying it would be nice if they did. But, no symbiotic relationship can survive long term when the brunt of neglect is put on the consumer. That can't be denied. You cannot continue to kick the dog in the head and just expect it will return every time...just to likely get kicked again.

That's the issue. The parties that squabble DO understand the importance and proceed to bungle the best way to take advantage of it and the ideas to move to an end goal have included high levels of exclusion and lost money. If those parties with their hands in the pot don't lose sleep over it now, that's fine, but if it continues, they likely will.

What exactly should the horseman do then? Accept a bad deal? Complaining about something is easy but actually coming up with an answer that is practical considering the circumstances is tough. Complain about the horseman all you want but the tracks (CDI especially) are the ones that dont want to make a fair deal, hiding behind the untruth that their ADW's would be unprofitable under the horsemans plan and that the horseman are to blame. Horseman simply want a similar cut of an ADW bet that they get from other types of bets. The tracks want to keep a greater %. You are the direct customer of the track. Bitch at them to make the deal.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What exactly should the horseman do then? Accept a bad deal? Complaining about something is easy but actually coming up with an answer that is practical considering the circumstances is tough. Complain about the horseman all you want but the tracks (CDI especially) are the ones that dont want to make a fair deal, hiding behind the untruth that their ADW's would be unprofitable under the horsemans plan and that the horseman are to blame. Horseman simply want a similar cut of an ADW bet that they get from other types of bets. The tracks want to keep a greater %. You are the direct customer of the track. Bitch at them to make the deal.

I'm pretty sure I said I think the horseman don't care who can bet what and where. They shouldn't. That's not their concern. But it eventually will become their concern if things stay stagnant. It will become the track's concern, bettors, etc...

I'm not trying to come off as anti-horseman, I don't buy into the notion that the tracks are in the right. The tracks and their "sky is falling if we accept the horseman's plan" is laughable.

But that doesn't excuse the parties as a whole from blame in the exclusionary tactics that affect the consumer. It doesn't matter who is at fault, because everyone's fingerprints are on the mess. If I could blame the liberals on this one, I would, but for once they are not responsible.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

I'm pretty sure I said I think the horseman don't care who can bet what and where. They shouldn't. That's not their concern. But it eventually will become their concern if things stay stagnant. It will become the track's concern, bettors, etc...

I'm not trying to come off as anti-horseman, I don't buy into the notion that the tracks are in the right. The tracks and their "sky is falling if we accept the horseman's plan" is laughable.

But that doesn't excuse the parties as a whole from blame in the exclusionary tactics that affect the consumer. It doesn't matter who is at fault, because everyone's fingerprints are on the mess. If I could blame the liberals on this one, I would, but for once they are not responsible.

Many horseman are very aware of the bettors complaints as many are major players themselves and all the players in the industry are partly to blame for the current mess. However the horseman are looking at the only growth area in wagering (ADWs) and seeing the tracks attempt to capitalize on that growth to the detriment of the horseman. If CDI in particular refuses to come to the table and allows its players to continue to be shutout from they are the ones who should bear the brunt of the players unhappiness. The horseman are eager for a deal and have been since day one but CDI believes it can intimidate, sue and slash purses in order to get the unfair deal that it wants. Remember that the horseman have taken major cuts in purses at CD and Calder so the dispute is causing them to lose money at the worst possible time. However the disgraceful tactics of CDI have caused the KY horseman especially to further band together and refuse to take another bad deal. There were empty stalls at CD and CDT this fall which is a bad sign for CDI who many in the state believe are the major holdup in KY getting a slots deal.