Islam and the weapon of deception

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

on the rights question

which islamic country has more rights than this western country

at least as far as women and a few other "groups"

I honestly haven't heard of them

when I am governor of Illinois I will fail to recognize the rights of people that want to take away the rights of people

None. Since they don't have any rights to take away is why they have all this extra time on their hands to plan violent attacks...that's sort of the joke I was making, that Christians don't have time to plan for such attacks when they're so busy with other things.

[dellinger63]

3) Said it was cool to treat women like farm animals(and said men could beat them up a little to keep them in line.)


Sounds a little like Wisconsin sans Madison

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I didn't take any offense to the site. I laughed at it. I'm sure I wasn't alone. Should we judge all members of a religion by the actions of the worst members of their particular faith?

Of course not, but when you find out that the Quran says 493 times that lying and deception are permissible to further the goal of the faith, then that seems to be a big red flag regarding relations with this group of people. How would you carry on a relationship when you knew that the other person in that relationship would lie to your face to achieve a secret goal?? Seems to me that would not bode well for a solid friendship.
Believe me when I say hesitate to even think about an entire culture based in part by Taqiyya, and building a bond with of peace with them.
ps...you probably laughed during "Schindlers List" too,huh?
pps...still waiting for an explanation of your "vetting" process for information

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Here's how I vet something. if you post it, i can pretty much guarantee it's ridiculous. Not sure how you make the stretch that I would find anything about Schindler's List funny. I laugh at your choices for "sources" and your mission to alienate anyone who doesn't believe as you do. I laugh at your politics and your unwillingness to get over your prejudices. My issue with this "piece" and you buying it hook line and sinker is it groups all Muslims together. Personally, I think you have too much time on your hands.

Catholic priests sexually abused children for decades. Should we all look negatively at all Catholic's because of this? Of course not, adults and people not named Scudsbrother understand that an entire group can't be characterized by their weakest members. Do you even know anyone that is Muslim?

Your whole post is nothing but BS! You twist words into a different meaning,as usual. People who laughed at everything usually don't understand
what they're faced with..so it explains you to a "T". I'm not trying to alienate anyone...just point out some things. The "reach" part is for you to understand something BEFORE you blast it. My initial post asked for your consideration...whether you "buy" it is up to you. How 'bout for New Years and beyond you don't talk to me...that'd work just fine.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You want me to understand something before I blast it? Look at this thread that YOU started. It's whole premise is blasting something, while not understanding it.

I twist words? That's rich. You correlate me finding your nonsense funny to me finding Schindler's List funny.

I don't understand what I'm faced with? You're too much. I'll ask again, do you even know anyone Muslim?

It must beyond your comprehension that anybody could pose a threat to the US. The purpose of thread was to show the stated threat to any non-believers in Islam...that is a fact, by their prophets' own words and the teachings of various sects. How many posts have you replied "I laughed"? If you laughed at this threat, then you would laugh at something as grave as Schindlers List. You could take all of the incidents in Norway,Germany, plus
France and Englands troubles with Muslims....that might give you a clue.
Yes, I know couple of Muslim families. Do you know any Christians that practice their faith?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It must beyond your comprehension that anybody could pose a threat to the US. The purpose of thread was to show the stated threat to any non-believers in Islam...that is a fact, by their prophets' own words and the teachings of various sects. How many posts have you replied "I laughed"? If you laughed at this threat, then you would laugh at something as grave as Schindlers List. You could take all of the incidents in Norway,Germany, plus
France and Englands troubles with Muslims....that might give you a clue.
Yes, I know couple of Muslim families. Do you know any Christians that practice their faith?

While I don't agree with the overall premise of your post or the legitimacy and fairness of the web site or the author, I understand it's a legitimate discussion considering the World we live in. However the repeated references and connecting of disagreeing with your post to laughing at Schindler's list really is pretty low and takes away from whatever points you are trying to make.

[Danzig]

http://www.csicop.org/si/9505/belief.html


an excerpt:


Beliefs are generated by the belief engine without any automatic concern for truth. Concern for truth is a higher order acquired cognitive orientation that reflects an underlying philosophy which presupposes an objective reality that is not always perceived by our senses.
The belief engine chugs away, strengthening old beliefs, spewing out new ones, rarely discarding any. We can sometimes see the error or foolishness in other people's beliefs. It is very difficult to see the same in our own. We believe in all sorts of things, abstract and concrete -- in the existence of the solar system, atoms, pizza, and five-star restaurants in Paris. Such beliefs are no different in principle from beliefs in fairies at the end of the garden, in ghosts in some deserted abbey, in werewolves, in satanic conspiracies, in miraculous cures, and so on. Such beliefs are all similar in form, all products of the same process, even though they vary widely in content. They may, however, involve greater or lesser involvement of the critical-thinking and emotional-response units.

Critical thinking, logic, reason, science -- these are all terms that apply in one way or another to the deliberate attempt to ferret out truth from the tangle of intuition, distorted perception, and fallible memory. The true critical thinker accepts what few people ever accept -- that one cannot routinely trust perceptions and memories. Figments of our imagination and reflections of our emotional needs can often interfere with or supplant the perception of truth and reality. Through teaching and encouraging critical thought our society will move away from irrationality, but we will never succeed in completely abandoning irrational tendencies, again because of the basic nature of the belief engine.

Experience is often a poor guide to reality. Skepticism helps us to question our experience and to avoid being too readily led to believe what is not so. We should try to remember the words of the late P. J. Bailey (in Festus: A Country Town): "Where doubt, there truth is -- 'tis her shadow."

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

While I don't agree with the overall premise of your post or the legitimacy and fairness of the web site or the author, I understand it's a legitimate discussion considering the World we live in. However the repeated references and connecting of disagreeing with your post to laughing at Schindler's list really is pretty low and takes away from whatever points you are trying to make.

Slow down Bob and read it slow! I didnt say Schindlers List was funny in any way. The threat isn't funny,either. At least you got that part right.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.csicop.org/si/9505/belief.html


an excerpt:


Beliefs are generated by the belief engine without any automatic concern for truth. Concern for truth is a higher order acquired cognitive orientation that reflects an underlying philosophy which presupposes an objective reality that is not always perceived by our senses.
The belief engine chugs away, strengthening old beliefs, spewing out new ones, rarely discarding any. We can sometimes see the error or foolishness in other people's beliefs. It is very difficult to see the same in our own. We believe in all sorts of things, abstract and concrete -- in the existence of the solar system, atoms, pizza, and five-star restaurants in Paris. Such beliefs are no different in principle from beliefs in fairies at the end of the garden, in ghosts in some deserted abbey, in werewolves, in satanic conspiracies, in miraculous cures, and so on. Such beliefs are all similar in form, all products of the same process, even though they vary widely in content. They may, however, involve greater or lesser involvement of the critical-thinking and emotional-response units.

Critical thinking, logic, reason, science -- these are all terms that apply in one way or another to the deliberate attempt to ferret out truth from the tangle of intuition, distorted perception, and fallible memory. The true critical thinker accepts what few people ever accept -- that one cannot routinely trust perceptions and memories. Figments of our imagination and reflections of our emotional needs can often interfere with or supplant the perception of truth and reality. Through teaching and encouraging critical thought our society will move away from irrationality, but we will never succeed in completely abandoning irrational tendencies, again because of the basic nature of the belief engine.

Experience is often a poor guide to reality. Skepticism helps us to question our experience and to avoid being too readily led to believe what is not so. We should try to remember the words of the late P. J. Bailey (in Festus: A Country Town): "Where doubt, there truth is -- 'tis her shadow."

Cut to the chase,Ziggy, what are you trying to say??

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Slow down Bob and read it slow! I didnt say Schindlers List was funny in any way. The threat isn't funny,either. At least you got that part right.

I didn't say YOU thought Schindler's List was funny but it sure seemed that you were inferring that disagreeing with the website/your posts = thinking SL is "funny"..

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I didn't say YOU thought Schindler's List was funny but it sure seemed that you were inferring that disagreeing with the website/your posts = thinking SL is "funny"..

The reference about SL was in reference to Hoss repeated posting of "I laughed". Primarily directed to him, as he came out with his usual blather towards me.

[Danzig]

since i couldn't find the term i was looking for, i put that up. in general, folks who 'believe' a certain thing will find plenty of info to back it up, while ignoring or discounting that which contradicts what they believe.
i read what you linked in the beginning; where you're able find that it proves the u.s. is in imminent danger, i don't know....but i'm sure you feel that it's perfectly acceptable to find an entire religion to be dangerous because of a certain segment of that population, while there's no doubt in my mind you'd be apopleptic if someone was to take catholics (for instance) to task.

and now no doubt i'll be told there's no comparison...

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

since i couldn't find the term i was looking for, i put that up. in general, folks who 'believe' a certain thing will find plenty of info to back it up, while ignoring or discounting that which contradicts what they believe.
i read what you linked in the beginning; where you're able find that it proves the u.s. is in imminent danger, i don't know....but i'm sure you feel that it's perfectly acceptable to find an entire religion to be dangerous because of a certain segment of that population, while there's no doubt in my mind you'd be apopleptic if someone was to take catholics (for instance) to task.

and now no doubt i'll be told there's no comparison...

I put thread up as a point of information. did you know anything about Taqiyya? I didn't say to string up all Muslims, did I ?? What do Catholics have to do with the topic? How do you people have conversations?...is it all soundbites or what?? Sheesh

[Mike]

I should have paid more attention to Comparative Religions as a freshman in college. I had a good book but threw it away

All I can speak to is from my experience being raised an Irish-Catholic and attending Catholic schools with nuns. I think I absorbed the moral teachings of Jesus, despite my early realization that the nuns were very mean spirited, unhappy people. Didn't take long after that to see the scriptures were twisted by almost all to justify their own actions. And, yes, pedophilia is an integral part of the Roman Catholic Church's culture, I believe. And that includes the current Pope

[Danzig]

that's just it, i don't think it's information. i don't think certain people are a danger because of the religion they follow, they are dangerous because they're criminal-minded. they use their religion to justify violence, they aren't violent due to their religion.

and your thread title was 'islam and the weapon...', not 'some followers of islam'. that seems pretty broad in scope to me.

[Honu]

I think a good experiment for Muslims would be to have a Sheik or someone of high "moral" authority say "My brothers and sisters with scarves for one week Allah says you are to be peacefull people in the world , for 7 days you must abstain from any warring with the infidels or anybody else , or Allah will strike you down".
I bet there would be almost no violence to report in the world except for the usual everyday murders , rapings, and theivery.
In a nutshell I think almost any Muslim in the Middle East who is given no hope by their leaders will resort to violence( this is true for almost all Muslim countries as it is the most effective way of brainwashing people) , death couldnt be any worse.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that's just it, i don't think it's information. i don't think certain people are a danger because of the religion they follow, they are dangerous because they're criminal-minded. they use their religion to justify violence, they aren't violent due to their religion.

and your thread title was 'islam and the weapon...', not 'some followers of islam'. that seems pretty broad in scope to me.

I used the Quran which lists the verses pertinent to Taqiyya(which by their definition is lying to non-believers to further the goals of Islam) How can that be broad in scope? How can that not be information? I didn't parse the verses together.
With regard to criminal activity..their BOOK does justify violence....and the current wave of violence around the world is proof of it.
Hoss asked what are we to do...well, I'll ask you...What are we to do about this?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah, I live in La La land where nothing ever goes wrong and I think we're beyond attacks. Get real for a second Dimmy. This whole thing has nothing to do with your concern for anything. It's about not understanding something that is different than what YOU believe in. You have shown before that you are pretty closed minded about anything that differentiates what you think. This is no different.

Yes, I have family members that are practice their Christian faith. I myself was raised Catholic and was baptized, confirmed, all of the nonsense. So what? I have read enough of the bible to know that i could start a few threads similar to this if I were to take it word for word. the point is, there are crazies that practice all religions.

One thing is for sure..you can't have a conversation without talking trash to me...so let's not have one. It is typical of you to fault me for an observation
nothing new there. Just carry on in your world without me,please.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

One thing is for sure..you can't have a conversation without talking trash to me...so let's not have one. It is typical of you to fault me for an observation nothing new there. Just carry on in your world without me,please.

I'm imagining that, like me, there are a couple of other people who aren't posting anything in here because Hossy is taking words right out of my mouth and doing a perfectly fine job picking apart a thread that started with such a ludicrous premise under the guise of 'oh look at this tidbit i just found, figured i'd share.'

Hossy called bull$hit, just like any other thinking person would have.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I'm imagining that, like me, there are a couple of other people who aren't posting anything in here because Hossy is taking words right out of my mouth and doing a perfectly fine job picking apart a thread that started with such a ludicrous premise under the guise of 'oh look at this tidbit i just found, figured i'd share.'

Hossy called bull$hit, just like any other thinking person would have.

It's your world, boys! I personally expected as much from you two deep thinkers, but i disagree with you that you speak for anyone but yourselves.