Don't think this is what WE had in mind...

Originally Posted by Honu

just didnt seem right to me. She badgered me for what seemed like weeks telling me how she "could get me in" all the while Im thinking this is just not right .

Well we know what your "friend" was thinking..

Not much, and $.
Bad combination.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Well we know what your "friend" was thinking..

Not much, and $.
Bad combination.

No kidding , and maybe there should be a course in ethics for these kinds of people . I just still have such a hard time grasping how dumb and greedy people can be , it seems to me they must not have a any pride in things that are ethical.
I feel this also goes for the people who were running this country and are still running this country , they are nothing but a bunch of unethical bastards and most likely if we werent , myself included , so "comfortable" in our lives we would overthrow them all.

[Cannon Shell]

Congressional pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac to secure homeowner loans to people who didnt necessarily deserve the loans was what allowed the banks to make such poor choices and decisions. The fact that a quasigovt agency was in effect backing all the loans, bad or good, allowed the banks to go wild with the refinancing and crazy ARM's. While the banks absolutely took advantage and went too far, the politicians courting special interest groups (like acorn) created the atmosphere for this kind of behavior to flourish.

The govt basically said make the bad loans we will cover them, until FM and FM ran out of money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes.
And you are also gonna bail out the CEO's from investment
banks and car companies who also not only made stupid decisions,
but in some cases made criminal decisions. You will pay for their
bonus next year. I hope you enjoy that while working your rear off.
Its more than the poor dumb sh its.

Car companies are not solely to blame for their problems. The unions crippled them for years which led to the foreign companies dominance by not having crippling labor obligations including pension and healthcare for retired employees, many of which were in their early 50's which means they were going to live for a long time.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Congressional pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac to secure homeowner loans to people who didnt necessarily deserve the loans was what allowed the banks to make such poor choices and decisions. The fact that a quasigovt agency was in effect backing all the loans, bad or good, allowed the banks to go wild with the refinancing and crazy ARM's. While the banks absolutely took advantage and went too far, the politicians courting special interest groups (like acorn) created the atmosphere for this kind of behavior to flourish.

The govt basically said make the bad loans we will cover them, until FM and FM ran out of money.

Govt said make loans easier,
the banks saw an opportunity to cheat.
Homeowners saw an opportunity to own a
home, the American dream. Or wheeler-dealers
saw an opportunity to buy up lots of homes.
Conservatives concentrate on the idiots that had
no business buying a house. Liberals look to the
wealthier parasites that took advantage of very cheap, easy
to obtain Mortages on a number of houses to be sold
again. The dreaded middle man that serves no purpose.
The maggots that just trade some hypothetical curreny.
Speculation gone mad.

Many forgot the American dream requires a job
and hard work.
And then you have to make enough
money. A bit of an oversight on all fronts.

Blaming just the victims/idiots is too easy.

[hi_im_god]

i wish the internet could investigate plane crashes.

i'm pretty sure we'd all conclude it was the ground's fault.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Car companies are not solely to blame for their problems. The unions crippled them for years which led to the foreign companies dominance by not having crippling labor obligations including pension and healthcare for retired employees, many of which were in their early 50's which means they were going to live for a long time.

I am so on the same page with you about the unions , I grew up in Pittsburgh and watched the unions kill the steel industry .

[Honu]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i wish the internet could investigate plane crashes.

i'm pretty sure we'd all conclude it was the ground's fault.

LOL

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Car companies are not solely to blame for their problems. The unions crippled them for years which led to the foreign companies dominance by not having crippling labor obligations including pension and healthcare for retired employees, many of which were in their early 50's which means they were going to live for a long time.

The type of cars they were pushing (while
using governement incentives "cash" to make cheaper
fuel efficient cars) was a huge error. They gambled
on a big car market that was small and lost.
And the CEO's did not fall on
their swords. They went away with bonuses
that would offset all the crap the unions pushed.

I wonder if the CEO's can get health insurance
having avoided falling on their swords...

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i wish the internet could investigate plane crashes.

i'm pretty sure we'd all conclude it was the ground's fault.

When the ground becomes vertical
instantaneously it is the ground's fault.

[SniperSB23]

I just don't like the idea of giving these douchebags who bought houses beyond their means money so that they keep the house they never deserved in the first place. I'm fine if they chose a plan to restructure the loans to 45 years or 60 years and waive as many closing costs as feasible for the refinance to make the mortgage more affordable. That makes a lot of sense to me. But handing out money to people who pay their mortgage on time is a fuc<ing joke unless you want to pay that money out to everyone paying their mortgage on time. At least cap this at a house valued at $100,000. That I could even deal with. The idea that I bought a house a couple years back for $160,000 cause that was all that was within my means and now will have to subsidize people who bought $250,000 houses at the same time that probably couldn't have realistically afforded my house just makes me sick. I'm as liberal as it gets but there is a HUGE difference between people not having opportunities and people making poor decisions. I'm all about helping the first group and saying fuc< you to the second.

[timmgirvan]

...that's why the whole freaking rush to pass this monstrosity was brainless
to start with....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

...that's why the whole freaking rush to pass this monstrosity was brainless
to start with....

I think the rush was necessary, the ultimate plan though was terrible. And this coming from someone that is a huge Obama supporter. Who knows, maybe ultimately I need to suck up my pride and realize that for the greater good of our economy we have to bail these douchebags out just like we did on Wall Street cause we as Americans are better off preventing these foreclosures. It doesn't mean I'm not going to be pissed about it for a while. And it's not like it sends a terrible message, that you can fuc< up as much as you want and put the country in a recession but don't worry, those of us that didn't fuc< up will be there to bail you out. That is so different than what liberalism should stand for.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think the rush was necessary, the ultimate plan though was terrible. And this coming from someone that is a huge Obama supporter. Who knows, maybe ultimately I need to suck up my pride and realize that for the greater good of our economy we have to bail these douchebags out just like we did on Wall Street cause we as Americans are better off preventing these foreclosures. It doesn't mean I'm not going to be pissed about it for a while. And it's not like it sends a terrible message, that you can fuc< up as much as you want and put the country in a recession but don't worry, those of us that didn't fuc< up will be there to bail you out. That is so different than what liberalism should stand for.

The rush to sign this bill compounds everything this country is facing for the next few decades....they shoulda waited....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The rush to sign this bill compounds everything this country is facing for the next few decades....they shoulda waited....

I don't buy that, if we are going to pump money into the economy we need to do it fast. Waiting helps nothing (except the Republicans who want the recession to last until 2012). But getting it done fast doesn't mean it needs to be done wrong. I think the stimulus package got it right for 98% of it. I think this got it completely wrong.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I don't buy that, if we are going to pump money into the economy we need to do it fast. Waiting helps nothing (except the Republicans who want the recession to last until 2012). But getting it done fast doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done wrong. I think the stimulus package got it right for 98% of it. I think this got it completely wrong.

As the saying goes...."that's what makes horseraces"

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I just don't like the idea of giving these douchebags who bought houses beyond their means money so that they keep the house they never deserved in the first place.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'm as liberal as it gets but there is a HUGE difference between people not having opportunities and people making poor decisions. I'm all about helping the first group and saying fuc< you to the second.

Congrats on locking up my vote for post of the month.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes.
And you are also gonna bail out the CEO's from investment
banks and car companies who also not only made stupid decisions,
but in some cases made criminal decisions. You will pay for their
bonus next year. I hope you enjoy that while working your rear off.
Its more than the poor dumb sh its.

saw in the paper yesterday that our auto industry contributes 10% of the jobs in this country-i'd imagine that's the main reason the govt felt the need to bail them out. that and they're union, and dems generally favor labor, and vice versa.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Congressional pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac to secure homeowner loans to people who didnt necessarily deserve the loans was what allowed the banks to make such poor choices and decisions. The fact that a quasigovt agency was in effect backing all the loans, bad or good, allowed the banks to go wild with the refinancing and crazy ARM's. While the banks absolutely took advantage and went too far, the politicians courting special interest groups (like acorn) created the atmosphere for this kind of behavior to flourish.

The govt basically said make the bad loans we will cover them, until FM and FM ran out of money.

what i keep wondering, is what interest does the govt have in ramming home ownership down peoples' throats? they turned it from being a dream to being a necessity. if everyone thinks back to what got our current financial mess started, it was housing and the huge loan mess.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Danzig

what i keep wondering, is what interest does the govt have in ramming home ownership down peoples' throats? they turned it from being a dream to being a necessity. if everyone thinks back to what got our current financial mess started, it was housing and the huge loan mess.

I'm not sure it's the govt who rammed this dream down anyone's throats. Any basic financial book you read, any article directed at 20 somethings out of college just starting out...home ownership is at the core of basically every financial planner's outline for developing a solid financial base. What would have happened if the Govt tried to step in and regulate and restrict mortgages 5 years ago? The screams from the right about Socialism and limited Govt would be as loud as they are today. Everyone wants regulation until it is them being told they can't get a mortgage.

Now if you want to include the IRS allowing interest deductions on mortgages vs limited financial allowances for renters..then yes, that could be construed as the Govt favoring Home Owners.