Havent they done enough to destroy american business?

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I guess I expected (or hoped) that he would be governing from the center... which what I was getting real excited about pre-inaugeration (sp?) when he seemed to be going towards the center.

Instead he is more left than everyone I've seen in my lifetime combined.

I just REALLY hope he doesnt start this Universal Healthcare thing... I'm all for reforming healthcare and making it more affordable (it needs to be - and start with the lawyers who sue the crap out of doctors and hospitals - and then kick the greedy pharmacutical companies in the gonads). Socialized medicine is just such a horrible idea. Obama should go live in a country that has socialized health care and he will change his mind RIGHT away.

remember folks he was listed as the most liberal senator in the senate last yr or in '07 - that's what was in the form Lori , left wing projects , left wing spending , why anyone thought it would be different is a shock to me , people talk in elections but in relaity we had joke for 8 yrs and that was that the dems had claimed that cheny ran the country , well if anyone things obama is in charge here you gotta be out of your mind , the country is being run by the majority leader of the house who couldn;t get elected in 95 % of the districts across the county , harrry reid takes his marching orders from her , everyone though that hillary would be the 1st female president , but , Mrs Pelosi has taken over from Cheny as the de facto leader of this country right now, Obama has to bow to her to get anything done

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by gales0678

remember folks he was listed as the most liberal senator in the senate last yr or in '07 - that's what was in the form Lori , left wing projects , left wing spending , why anyone thought it would be different is a shock to me , people talk in elections but in relaity we had joke for 8 yrs and that was that the dems had claimed that cheny ran the country , well if anyone things obama is in charge here you gotta be out of your mind , the country is being run by the majority leader of the house who couldn;t get elected in 95 % of the districts across the county , harrry reid takes his marching orders from her , everyone though that hillary would be the 1st female president , but , Mrs Pelosi has taken over from Cheny as the de facto leader of this country right now, Obama has to bow to her to get anything done

I knew the stats on Obama... I was just hoping it would be different. Its not like I voted for the guy!!! I just was hoping for the best... I still am but am very worried about what I'm seeing.


Pelosi is a moron... even Dems think so... Any time I've ever read a quote from her she comes off as clue-less. How the heck did she become the majority leader?!?!?!?!

Shoot... even Bush and Cheney are a much better option than her!!!

[gales0678]

listen for 8 yrs i heard cheny was runnig the country - fine

now i'm telling you nancy pelosi is running the country Obama is a pawn in the game at this point , he's the guy that the party could sell to the american people , but he's like a puppet on strings no different than our former president

[Danzig]

skidding on ice, but not yet hitting a tree, is not my definition of a good ride. to say that we will look back on bushes tenure as the good old days imo is laughable. things are bad now-that doesn't not mean it was better before. it's just varying degrees of bad.

[witchdoctor]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I'm all for reforming healthcare and making it more affordable (it needs to be - and start with the lawyers who sue the crap out of doctors and hospitals - and then kick the greedy pharmacutical companies in the gonads). Socialized medicine is just such a horrible idea. Obama should go live in a country that has socialized health care and he will change his mind RIGHT away.

That ain't gonna happen.. Trial attorneys are some Obama's biggest supporters. Obama said in an article in Medical Economics that there is no proof that lawsuits increase the cost of health care. He wouldn't comment on the tort reform laes in Texas.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Some of the stuff you read on here will make you reconsider everything you thought you knew about human intelligence and perception.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

What do you think of the job Obama is doing?? I all see him do is spend BILLIONS every single day it seems like. He has to be disappointing everyone so far..

I know I know... its only been 6 weeks. He seems to be the next Jimmy Carter.

I think he's doing the best he can right now. He inherited a gigantic clusterf*ck, no matter which way you look at it. He got wars, an economy in the tank, etc. I don't even care who started it. But the problem is that it's sit idly by and watch it crumble, or try to do something about it. I'm a bigger fan of spending lots of money out of desperation to try to get something to work to turn things around (ie, now), than I am of spending lots of money out of things we just plain old feel like doing (ie, before now). I don't have a knee-jerk aversion to spending money in an attempt to stimulate the economy out of desperation in the same way that conservatives have no knee-jerk aversion to spending money to invade other countries. We just see things differently.

Can't know how it's going to turn out, and he's spending an awful lot of money, but I'm going to reserve judgment for the time being because it's not like he walked into a piece of cake.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Danzig

skidding on ice, but not yet hitting a tree, is not my definition of a good ride. to say that we will look back on bushes tenure as the good old days imo is laughable. things are bad now-that doesn't not mean it was better before. it's just varying degrees of bad.

its hardly laughable, by any economic measure we're much worse off then we've been for a long long time, and he only been on the job a couple of months. his actions have went over with a thud and you've even got people like Warren Buffett saying that the wrong actions are being taken.

unless you're a gitmo detainee, or a deadbeat mortgage holder (I assume you are neither) we're hardly better off now.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

its good to be on the sidelines right now..im glad im just a working man..not a banker or an upper admin position..your gonna get whacked..hes spending money like he found a check book..ill save the i told you so for later in the term..good news is earth wind and fire and stevie wonder get to play the white house..

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

He seems to be the next Jimmy Carter.

I hope we don't get to the point where Carter's administration looks like the good old days!!

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

its hardly laughable, by any economic measure we're much worse off then we've been for a long long time, and he only been on the job a couple of months. his actions have went over with a thud and you've even got people like Warren Buffett saying that the wrong actions are being taken.

Warren Buffet also said the Bush administration was
taking the right steps under Paul Volcker. I am beginning
to doubt anyone knows what the proper fix is.

But a whole lot of people apparently know what NOT
to do. Thanks a million. Thats a lot of help.
Your plan. Your turn.

Anyone who thought this was gonna turn around over
night... No one has a flippn clue what to do or how long
anything will take.

So lets all go out a be good
reasonable consumers. And if you cant consume,
be innovative so people will want to consume your
innovation.
My plan.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Some of the stuff you read on here will make you reconsider everything you thought you knew about human intelligence and perception.

Thanks for your insight Adam Smith. So you think this "plan" is a good thing? Are you going to use the BWS theory of you have to do something even if it is bad for the vast majority of people because doing nothing wouldnt pay back all the special interest groups that got me in and I really dont know what to do so I will pay these people back and be a hero to the sicko liberals and people who dont work and the clueless people in academia that you seem so enamored of?

^^^Scuds style

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Thanks for your insight Adam Smith. So you think this "plan" is a good thing? Are you going to use the BWS theory of you have to do something even if it is bad for the vast majority of people because doing nothing wouldnt pay back all the special interest groups that got me in and I really dont know what to do so I will pay these people back and be a hero to the sicko liberals and people who dont work and the clueless people in academia that you seem so enamored of?

^^^Scuds style

Actually Chuck, the BWS theory doesn't hold that "doing nothing wouldnt pay back all the special interest groups that got me in" at all.

It holds that doing nothing is a bad idea because watching the economy tank all around you and watching people hurt and deciding that the only thing that will help is to make the rich richer (which seems to have been working really well leading us into this mess, eh?!) is....well, just a bad idea.

You're making it sound far too complicated and far too political.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Thanks for your insight Adam Smith. So you think this "plan" is a good thing? Are you going to use the BWS theory of you have to do something even if it is bad for the vast majority of people because doing nothing wouldnt pay back all the special interest groups that got me in and I really dont know what to do so I will pay these people back and be a hero to the sicko liberals and people who dont work and the clueless people in academia that you seem so enamored of?

^^^Scuds style

Clearly that's what I said. I'm just getting a huge kick out of this thread. Watching the Republicans be the Chicken Littles six weeks into a Democratic presidency when eight years of a disastrous Republican administration caused them no concern is freaking delicious.

I'm reserving my opinion on how well Obama is doing on the economy considering the stimulus just passed last week. I think his closing of Guantanamo and denunciation of torture is a major step in the right direction, and the fact that the unnecessary $2 trillion war that your guy started will end is pretty cool, though I'm not happy with his planned "surge" in Afghanistan. I certainly don't think it's unreasonable or radical to not yet make extreme declarations about his Presidency one way or another.

It's just 40 sumphin days durrrh

A year from now..

It's just 405 days durrh b..b..b..but Bush ahurr

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Actually Chuck, the BWS theory doesn't hold that "doing nothing wouldnt pay back all the special interest groups that got me in" at all.

It holds that doing nothing is a bad idea because watching the economy tank all around you and watching people hurt and deciding that the only thing that will help is to make the rich richer (which seems to have been working really well leading us into this mess, eh?!) is....well, just a bad idea.

You're making it sound far too complicated and far too political.

But it IS complicated and it IS political. The stock market continues to plunge BECAUSE of the policies and decisions made by the new administration and his team. To say that doing nothing is a bad idea is to ignore the daily machinations of the market and the millions of people who see their life savings dwindling away. You obviously have zero economic background or understanding because you would realize that despite the propaganda it is the Rich who are losing the most and the rest of us who will ultimately pay. And believing that tax cuts have contributed much to this economic crash is to ignore the worldwide issues that we are seeing. You and many liberals continue to buy into the theory that the rich (or George Bush) are to blame for all the problems of the world. That is the class warfare that the Democrats wish to use to get votes. Actually believing that it is true is inexcusable.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

its hardly laughable, by any economic measure we're much worse off then we've been for a long long time, and he only been on the job a couple of months. his actions have went over with a thud and you've even got people like Warren Buffett saying that the wrong actions are being taken.

unless you're a gitmo detainee, or a deadbeat mortgage holder (I assume you are neither) we're hardly better off now.

i'm not disagreeing that we're in bad shape now-but i disagree that bushes eight years were anything resembling 'good old days'. way too many things went wrong during his term. now, 'worse' is not as good as 'bad'-but it's still 'bad'-so, in comparison 'bad' is now 'good'? i don't think so.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Clearly that's what I said. I'm just getting a huge kick out of this thread. Watching the Republicans be the Chicken Littles six weeks into a Democratic presidency when eight years of a disastrous Republican administration caused them no concern is freaking delicious.

I'm reserving my opinion on how well Obama is doing on the economy considering the stimulus just passed last week. I think his closing of Guantanamo and denunciation of torture is a major step in the right direction, and the fact that the unnecessary $2 trillion war that your guy started will end is pretty cool, though I'm not happy with his planned "surge" in Afghanistan. I certainly don't think it's unreasonable or radical to not yet make extreme declarations about his Presidency one way or another.

yeah,the war in iraq will end-but i don't think obama will end it any sooner than a rep would have-and any troops he moves from there will be heading to afganistan, not home. any savings he's claiming from cutting back on the war is false-he's only moving the troops and materiel.
and, like i read earlier, things contracted more in the fourth quarter last year than they originally gave out, and obamas budget paints a rosier picture of growth than practically every economist out there.

a rush to do something to turn things around is just that-a rush job. you get out what you put in. i think a bit more patience was called for. but the dems took the opportunity to pass a massive spending bill-two actually-based on fear. and they passed. and now we wait and see what happens. considering how pols usually do, i'd say this won't go any better than any thing else that's been tried on capital hill lately.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Clearly that's what I said. I'm just getting a huge kick out of this thread. Watching the Republicans be the Chicken Littles six weeks into a Democratic presidency when eight years of a disastrous Republican administration caused them no concern is freaking delicious.

I'm reserving my opinion on how well Obama is doing on the economy considering the stimulus just passed last week. I think his closing of Guantanamo and denunciation of torture is a major step in the right direction, and the fact that the unnecessary $2 trillion war that your guy started will end is pretty cool, though I'm not happy with his planned "surge" in Afghanistan. I certainly don't think it's unreasonable or radical to not yet make extreme declarations about his Presidency one way or another.

Joey you may not like the response but you are really not seeing what is going on in the world right now. You are in college and dont have a family to support or mortage to pay or business to run. You arent seeing your hard earned retirement money being burned at the stake daily. You dont understand that business is terrified by the economic decisions made by the Obama administration. you dont seem to get that the reason that Wall Street has tanked worse since Obama took over is Obama. The market is speaking on the economy daily. You are in the wonderful world of academia where theories abound and everything is insulated especially since Obama is sending more money. The real world isnt that concerned with torture or Guantamano right now. I would be willing to bet that many who were appalled at torture would sign up to wear the black hood since they got laid off and cant find work. The war ISNT ending anytime soon regardless of what Obama or his people have said. Obama is still campaigning to keep up his approval ratings. He will soon find out that he will be judged by his actions just like Bush was. Remember that at one time Bush had an 80% approval rating. Obama cant campaign forever. The Pelosification of the country will eventually lead to his downfall. He got 53% of the vote last time. There arent many people that will believe his centerist fiction in three years if he is as bad for the next three years as he has been for the first 2 months. Of course you can continue to worry about torture. Maybe since there will be no jobs when you graduate you can write press releases for Amnesty International or become a professional protester against Free trade?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

1. But it IS complicated and it IS political.

2. The stock market continues to plunge BECAUSE of the policies and decisions made by the new administration and his team.

3. That is the class warfare that the Democrats wish to use to get votes.

1. yep

2. I have a huge problem with the financial news networks "finding" reasons why the stockmarket has an up or a down day. No one ever seems to question the rather dubious claims made and very often taken as gospel. "The stock market plunged on news that..." bull you dont know this.
The stock market has been extraordinarily shaky for a while now and is in a downward spiral and it seems that the most likely reason is uncertainty. People dont know if the "cure" will work or not, or even if there is a cure...
I heard some people say the only cure is 2 years of pain. This is as good as any I have ever heard.
The stock market looks backwards (monthly/weekly etc... reports that come in 1 month after the fact) and forwards. It seems to me it is much more complicated than "the stock market reacted to Iran's bellicose statements towards Israel"

3. The thing I hate most about the Democratic party.
Its way too easy and dangerous- setting people against each other.