Syn to Dirt Beyer Converter

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

This is the problem in conventional handicapping. The pacesetter in any other type of race is at a distinct disadvantage. In dirt horse racing, with all the biased tracks and other factors, the speed has the advantage. Handicappers come up with creative ways to justify this as it's the 'norm' for them. When fair racing comes along, like what's happening in CALI, KEE, and elsewhere, they don't know how to deal with it. DIRT reigns supreme and what's actually fair racing, POLY (all artificial surfaces) is DEBASED.

Go figure.

As for me, CALI racing, and all other artificial track racing, MAKES SENSE.

Not true.

Originally Posted by CSC

Acoma is one that comes to mind, she's won on dirt/synth/turf and she is by Empire Maker.

Name the only filly to win a G2 on dirt, G1 on turf, and G1 on synthetic in the same year.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

Not true.



Name the only filly to win a G2 on dirt, G1 on turf, and G1 on synthetic in the same year.

Forever Together?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Forever Together?

I don't remember Forever Together winning a grade 2 on dirt...Since I don't like cheating, did she?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Forever Together?

Nope. She's only run once on synthetic and was mediocre at best on dirt.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't remember Forever Together winning a grade 2 on dirt...Since I don't like cheating, did she?

yes

[CSC]

Originally Posted by philcski

Nope. She's only run once on synthetic and was mediocre at best on dirt.

Was she trained by Frankel?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by CSC

Was she trained by Frankel?

No.

Although I think I was unfair to Forever Together- she was decent on dirt, decent enough to win the Forward Gal. Just not spectacular like she is on turf.

[philcski]

Another clue, she is by far the leading money earner for a sire who has his 4th crop as 2yo's this year.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

Name the only filly to win a G2 on dirt, G1 on turf, and G1 on synthetic in the same year.

Still think she was better than Rags?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Panty Raid?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It's the West Point filly that beat Rags. I can't for the life of me remember her name though.

Edit - Lear's Princess

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It's the West Point filly that beat Rags. I can't for the life of me remember her name though.

Lears Princess

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Panty Raid?

Yeah, Phil had a sick love affair with her.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not her, I think Kiaran McLaughlin trained her. She beat Rags in the Gazelle and then was awful in the Breeders Cup at Monmouth. I think Coa rode her.

I went back and edited to Lear's Princess....unfortunately it's the over-rated Pansie Raid who is the answer.

[CSC]

It had to be a Pletcher or Frankel.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Yeah, Phil had a sick love affair with her.

I just hope he's been able to overcome his love for pink shirts.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Panty Raid?

Yes.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Still think she was better than Rags?

They were a lot closer than given credit for. On dirt, no- Rags to Riches was an outstanding filly, probably the best of the last 3-4 years. On turf or synthetic, maybe. But unfortunately, due to injury and early retirement and because they ran for the same trainer, we never got to find out.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

Yes.



They were a lot closer than given credit for. On dirt, no- Rags to Riches was an outstanding filly, probably the best of the last 3-4 years. On turf or synthetic, maybe. But unfortunately, due to injury and early retirement and because they ran for the same trainer, we never got to find out.

Rachel Alexandra would beat them both on dirt.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Rachel Alexandra would beat them both on dirt.

I think so and I hope so. However, there isn't much competition in her division this year so we may not know how good she really is until she faces the boys or older fillies.

[Riot]

I find the Keeneland (and Turfway, and Arlington) Polytrack surfaces rather boringly predictable, rather than random. They very noticably tighten up with cooler weather and wet (favors frontrunners), slows and becomes more deep with warm/dry (becomes obviously fair), and this is very apparent during some days as the day progresses, and when one compares morning training times to race times. Keeneland has been spot on with this, this meet so far.

It very often plays very fairly to both speed (must be fit) and closers (must be fit).

At Keeneland, the lack of favorites winning is due more, IMO, to the variety of horses (especially young horses) shipping in from all over (mixing of populations that have never run against each other before).

Fall meet is more predictable than spring, regarding favorites winning (haven't checked it for sure, my impression)

Arlington and Turfway, with their populations rather more fixed and constantly competing against each other, are hardly chaotic or random IMO.

Some handicappers view Kee as chaos, some as great financial opportunity. It plays little like turf in my experience.

Regarding Derby horses, one has to see if they can handle the Churchill dirt surface during their last two weeks of training, anyway. The morning gallops and works reports are most important to me in the final separation of the field.

Regarding using a formula to convert synthetic to dirt figures, I'd want to know under what weather conditions the synthetic figure was obtained.