Washington Post/George Will article..

Originally Posted by jwkniska

that was one of the sticking points when they first put in the boats here and the casinos knew that from the beginning.

The horse tracks deserve their rightful portion, as it was agreed to when the casinos were built.

In 2006, supposedly to "address the negative impact that riverboat gaming has had" on Illinois horse racing, the legislature -- racing interests...

Why would the racing industry in Illinois take this route if there was a prior agreement? The Supreme Court will send it back. They wont take the case if there is a major flaw like a prior agreement that was not looked at. Will does not mention this... He clearly states that racing interests were using a negative impact arguement, I dont see where it says anything about a prior agreement.

Conflicting rulings by state courts demonstrate that that question is chaotically unsettled.

Apparently the agreement, whatever it is or was, has some type of flaw.
Or Will has missed something big time.
He usually does his homework.

I have always liked the guy despite the fact
that he has no clue how comfy my blue jeans
are. Even with my massive groin area. (Damn.
That was destined for the 3 words that describe
me thread)
Cat is out of the bag.
The Mighty Python has left his cage.

I apologize for my juvenile behavior.

[jwkniska]

there might have been a time limit on the original percentage that expired.

Originally Posted by jwkniska

there might have been a time limit on the original percentage that expired.

then let the games begin

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Seriously, you're a moron if you think that Will is a pompous gasbag.

While this is far from a perfect column -- for instance, I think that he should have considered the issues that I raised above (which he might have and I am unaware) -- Will routinely presents thoughtful, well-reasoned arguments. If nothing else, I'd describe him as a mature person in a field of flamethrowers.

You can disagree with him, but calling him a pompous gasbag shows massive ignorance.

He did a piece in February about climate change where he blatantly misinterpreted data and also stated that a research group said things they'd never said (i.e., made stuff up about them). Why? Because, I'm sure, the pesky facts didn't fit in with his opinion. When these mistakes were pointed out, neither he nor the Washington Post ever did a correction. If you enjoy him great, but I think op-ed columnists should do a bit more fact-checking if they're writing for a big publication. Will just doesn't bother and then when the mistakes are pointed out, doesn't fix them.

This wasn't a well-reasoned argument (the ed on racing) as it was only tangentially connected to his main complaint, which is eminent domain. I do think there are very good arguments to be made against seizing private property to give to other private hands (and for a lot of public reasons, for that matter), but I think, as "just compensation" is required for seizing of property, it's pretty clear that revenue doesn't fall under the kind of private property eminent domain addresses. He's seriously reaching by using racing getting casino revenues as his straw man because many people have a bad opinion of gambling anyway, so he's safe. Maybe I'm misreading his argument, but I don't think so.

And any man who is going to do a piece on the trashy classlessness of blue jeans is a pompous gasbag in my book. And he doesn't check his facts. Which doesn't make him a gasbag, but does make him a lazy writer.

[freddymo]

Why anyone continues to think slots are the holy grail for racing it is beyond me... Slots destroy people, there damage costs way more to repair then the short term good.. Racing needs to fix its product based on what it can control not the alure of slot dollars.. IE Nerud message

Am I happy to race a horse at PID in a state bred Mdn Spl for 70k sure ,but I recognize that in 3 years all the bloom will be for the rose and folks will be broke and PID state breds will be racing for 27k again.. Its a shot in the arm for a few years and then you still have to deal with broke ass folks who were baited into losing they lives... Slots suck!

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why anyone continues to think slots are the holy grail for racing it is beyond me... Slots destroy people, there damage costs way more to repair then the short term good.. Racing needs to fix its product based on what it can control not the alure of slot dollars.. IE Nerud message

Am I happy to race a horse at PID in a state bred Mdn Spl for 70k sure ,but I recognize that in 3 years all the bloom will be for the rose and folks will be broke and PID state breds will be racing for 27k again.. Its a shot in the arm for a few years and then you still have to deal with broke ass folks who were baited into losing they lives... Slots suck!

I agree: Slots are a stopgap measure at best. They are not a panacea. They also appeal to people who are not likely to become horseplayers no matter how much the game changes. The slot player does not want to think about their selections -- here's the extent of the experience: "-CLICK- -CLICK- -CLICK-" (repeat a couple of thousand times).

Unfortunately we are not capable of dumbing down the game enough to appeal to slot players -- and we should not try to do so. Aside from accessibility and marketing, a leadership post at the national level, and the ending of the intransigence of the state-based fiefdoms, there is not a lot that can be done about the game. A race will still take 20 minutes between starts, time that we handicappers put to good use, and it will always be difficult to figure out who's going to win, place or show, or complete exotics.

We horseplayers are in as unfortunate position as those who enjoy other intellectual pursuits -- we don't drive the market more than those who don't participate. Some of the best movies don't do well at the box office, making it less likely to see more of that caliber. Classical music stations do terrible in the ratings and advertising rates so they don't last forever.

The thing that really gets my goat is that racing (and to a similar extent, poker) need not be "negative expectation" games all the time. As we all know, sometimes the odds are higher than they should be on a horse, making him a good bet. This never happens at a casino table game, where odds are fixed to always be lower than true risk, and especially not at the slots, where the real risk numbers are often not even published!

The gambling public is actually being less well served by the casinos than the racetrack, where parimutuel betting is self equalizing over time, and provides a more interesting "market" for action, literally. Again, we all know this, but I try my best to advocate on racing's behalf to those friends of mine whom I know enjoy gambling and whom I also know are ignorant of racing's obvious advantages over casino gaming.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I agree: Slots are a stopgap measure at best. They are not a panacea. They also appeal to people who are not likely to become horseplayers no matter how much the game changes. The slot player does not want to think about their selections -- here's the extent of the experience: "-CLICK- -CLICK- -CLICK-" (repeat a couple of thousand times).

Unfortunately we are not capable of dumbing down the game enough to appeal to slot players -- and we should not try to do so. Aside from accessibility and marketing, a leadership post at the national level, and the ending of the intransigence of the state-based fiefdoms, there is not a lot that can be done about the game. A race will still take 20 minutes between starts, time that we handicappers put to good use, and it will always be difficult to figure out who's going to win, place or show, or complete exotics.

We horseplayers are in as unfortunate position as those who enjoy other intellectual pursuits -- we don't drive the market more than those who don't participate. Some of the best movies don't do well at the box office, making it less likely to see more of that caliber. Classical music stations do terrible in the ratings and advertising rates so they don't last forever.

The thing that really gets my goat is that racing (and to a similar extent, poker) need not be "negative expectation" games all the time. As we all know, sometimes the odds are higher than they should be on a horse, making him a good bet. This never happens at a casino table game, where odds are fixed to always be lower than true risk, and especially not at the slots, where the real risk numbers are often not even published!

The gambling public is actually being less well served by the casinos than the racetrack, where parimutuel betting is self equalizing over time, and provides a more interesting "market" for action, literally. Again, we all know this, but I try my best to advocate on racing's behalf to those friends of mine whom I know enjoy gambling and whom I also know are ignorant of racing's obvious advantages over casino gaming.

Circling back to the article and the situation here, all the Illinois Horseman, Tracks and Bettors are asking for is a level playing field with the "competition"...The tax laws and other incentives in Illinois greatly favor the riverboats and this was a measure to tip the scales back a bit.

[freddymo]

Yeah I know but they don't serve and promote Crack in 10th grade Home Eck...Crack doesn't destroy lives either..

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Circling back to the article and the situation here, all the Illinois Horseman, Tracks and Bettors are asking for is a level playing field with the "competition"...The tax laws and other incentives in Illinois greatly favor the riverboats and this was a measure to tip the scales back a bit.

Ok Bob so basically its F'd up and we know it so now let's just make it fair and f'd up.. BTW the action on the boat in Elgin is fantastic...100x's odds and 100 to 10k on the BJ tables is awesome..

Remember once you suck tit it's hard to break the habit

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ok Bob so basically its F'd up and we know it so now let's just make it fair and f'd up.. BTW the action on the boat in Elgin is fantastic...100x's odds and 100 to 10k on the BJ tables is awesome..

Remember once you suck tit it's hard to break the habit

I hate that freakin boat..never win there..but that's a different story..

Band aids serve a purpose too Freddy....although this is more like a full body cast

[freddymo]

Less dates, less horses, less folks in the business.. There are too many horses and to little money to fund the industry.. Shouldn't the lottery kick to racing as well?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Less dates, less horses, less folks in the business.. There are too many horses and to little money to fund the industry.. Shouldn't the lottery kick to racing as well?

If you want to talk about the problems in racing, then that will overwhem this little thread...I think its pretty safe to say that the benefits awarded to the casino industry in Illinois far outweigh anything that the State run lottery gets..And I can buy all the lottery tickets I want at the track and they get a piece back in return.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I hate that freakin boat..never win there..but that's a different story..

Band aids serve a purpose too Freddy....although this is more like a full body cast

Nobody ever wins there, nobody.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by Scav

Nobody ever wins there, nobody.

I'm positive the last 2 times I was in there (only play certain games though and play less since they took out most of the quarter video poker ones).

[Scav]

Originally Posted by jwkniska

I'm positive the last 2 times I was in there (only play certain games though and play less since they took out most of the quarter video poker ones).

You're the greatest gambler of all time then

[philcski]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I agree: Slots are a stopgap measure at best. They are not a panacea. They also appeal to people who are not likely to become horseplayers no matter how much the game changes. The slot player does not want to think about their selections -- here's the extent of the experience: "-CLICK- -CLICK- -CLICK-" (repeat a couple of thousand times).

Unfortunately we are not capable of dumbing down the game enough to appeal to slot players -- and we should not try to do so. Aside from accessibility and marketing, a leadership post at the national level, and the ending of the intransigence of the state-based fiefdoms, there is not a lot that can be done about the game. A race will still take 20 minutes between starts, time that we handicappers put to good use, and it will always be difficult to figure out who's going to win, place or show, or complete exotics.

We horseplayers are in as unfortunate position as those who enjoy other intellectual pursuits -- we don't drive the market more than those who don't participate. Some of the best movies don't do well at the box office, making it less likely to see more of that caliber. Classical music stations do terrible in the ratings and advertising rates so they don't last forever.

The thing that really gets my goat is that racing (and to a similar extent, poker) need not be "negative expectation" games all the time. As we all know, sometimes the odds are higher than they should be on a horse, making him a good bet. This never happens at a casino table game, where odds are fixed to always be lower than true risk, and especially not at the slots, where the real risk numbers are often not even published!

The gambling public is actually being less well served by the casinos than the racetrack, where parimutuel betting is self equalizing over time, and provides a more interesting "market" for action, literally. Again, we all know this, but I try my best to advocate on racing's behalf to those friends of mine whom I know enjoy gambling and whom I also know are ignorant of racing's obvious advantages over casino gaming.

good word, i had to look it up

intransigence - 3 dictionary results Jump to: Synonyms | News | Nearby Words

in⋅tran⋅si⋅gent   /ɪnˈtrænsɪdʒənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tran-si-juhnt] Show IPA
–adjective 1. refusing to agree or compromise; uncompromising; inflexible.

–noun 2. a person who refuses to agree or compromise, as in politics.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by Scav

You're the greatest gambler of all time then

wouldn't go that far.... helps to be lucky though.
Actually, last time I had a purple chip was in there (AAAA on Caribbean Stud). Unfortunately dealer didn't qual, but still a $500 payout for the $1 progressive.

[GBBob]

bump

May 14 is the date

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...E?OpenDocument

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

bump

May 14 is the date

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...E?OpenDocument

Pretty big, means Book 2 could see some purse improvements

[philcski]

Originally Posted by GBBob

bump

May 14 is the date

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...E?OpenDocument

i kind of like this article better

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...3?OpenDocument