Best 3 yr old in the country

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by gales0678

what if the connections take him up to Woodbine to run in some of the big races up there and he wins - does that get held against him as well

it's a long way to go - my main point is IF he wins the belmont , another 3yr old colt would have to run the table in some pretty big races including the BCC out on the poly in cali - and i don't think Jimmy will go to california with QR in my opinion to run on the cushion , so if MTB wins at BEL i don't see a chance for QR to overtake him for 3 yr old of the year because i don't think QR is going to Califronia no matter how many races in NY he wins

Big races in Woodbine? You mean on the turf in races often targeted by older European horses? I'm sure he'd turn some heads if he won those but he'd be longer odds than he was in the Derby to do so. What other big races would they run him in at Woodbine?

[blackthroatedwind]

I will reserve comment until Summer Colony a Pole checks in.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Big races in Woodbine? You mean on the turf in races often targeted by older European horses? I'm sure he'd turn some heads if he won those but he'd be longer odds than he was in the Derby to do so. What other big races would they run him in at Woodbine?

i don't know what 3 yr old races are up there

[Thunder Gulch]

If- big, big if- MTB wins the Belmont, I think it would take an already accomplished 3yo winning the Classic to beat him for the 3yo colt Eclipse. The only 3yo colts who have enough on their resume now to even talk about getting in the mix later in the year are Quality Road, I Want Revenge, POTN, Musket Man, and Friesan Fire. If one of those were to win the Travers, another top race, and the Classic, it would be close. If QR or IWR came back with strong summer/fall campaigns, they would certainly have to be considered especially if they beat MTB head to head in races.

[CSC]

If anything we have learned you cannot discount the talent that comes from perceived inferior locales. Sealy Hill & now Mine That Bird are a testament to that, both former Sovereign winners. Throw in Fatal Bullet also.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

For the love of God....it is M-I-N-E That Bird! Why can't people get a simple name like this right?

'cause he got beat by Rachel ALEXANDER

[gales0678]

i maybe jumping the gun but at this point i guess it's safe to say he is the top 3 yr old of the year for colts - and we still have a good 5 months of racing ahead of us - it's his to lose now

[Indian Charlie]

tiznow.

ever heard of him?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by robfla

'cause he got beat by Rachel ALEXANDER

Rachel Alexander is the maiden name of Rachel Nichols.

And for the record ... I'd toss her salad.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So, in other words, you think based on his accomplishments prior to May 2nd, he should have been considered in " this discussion " back in April? That's interesting and I would love you to explain this ( or even direct me to your posts about this from a few weeks, or more, ago ). And, let me offer a belated congratulations on the score you made in the KY Derby and further compliment you on your modesty, until now, about this life altering event.

Gee

All this attention from you.

All I'm saying is this 'FAST ENOUGH' **** is just that: BULLSHIT

You, of all people, know that it's all, pretty much, about SETUPS.

Horses improve or take step backwards based on the way the race shapes up.

As for the other ****: I didn't bet the Derby. I'm only on record as thinking that Friesan Fire was a piece a ****.

Life is good when you don't have to justify some FIGURE. And even better when your opinion is not FIGUREcentric.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Gee

All this attention from you.

All I'm saying is this 'FAST ENOUGH' **** is just that: BULLSHIT

You, of all people, know that it's all, pretty much, about SETUPS.

Horses improve or take step backwards based on the way the race shapes up.

As for the other ****: I didn't bet the Derby. I'm only on record as thinking that Friesan Fire was a piece a ****.

Life is good when you don't have to justify some FIGURE. And even better when your opinion is not FIGUREcentric.

I don't understand why someone who understands the game as well as you do needs to constantly twist people's use of figures, and the viability of good speed figures, to somehow justify your points. The idea of understanding race flow, and how it affects outcomes, is interesting and important enough on its own to not need to be supplemented with a misguided constant attack on speed figures.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Gee

All this attention from you.

All I'm saying is this 'FAST ENOUGH' **** is just that: BULLSHIT

You, of all people, know that it's all, pretty much, about SETUPS.

Horses improve or take step backwards based on the way the race shapes up.

As for the other ****: I didn't bet the Derby. I'm only on record as thinking that Friesan Fire was a piece a ****.

Life is good when you don't have to justify some FIGURE. And even better when your opinion is not FIGUREcentric.

You are ahead of me... It only took me 2 TC races to figure out FF is a one track wonder. As far as Mine That Bird, If he wins the Belmont is most certainly should be 3 year old of the year.. He would be 1 length away from the Triple Crown. I go on record stating that his running style is absolutely not a fit in the Belmont.. You need to be on or near the lead and RA fits that perfectly.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by jms62

You are ahead of me... It only took me 2 TC races to figure out FF is a one track wonder. As far as Mine That Bird, If he wins the Belmont is most certainly should be 3 year old of the year.. He would be 1 length away from the Triple Crown. I go on record stating that his running style is absolutely not a fit in the Belmont.. You need to be on or near the lead and RA fits that perfectly.

Of course you do not.

[King Glorious]

I think everyone is being premature here. We need to see how those monsters that were beating him down in NM finish out the year. I mean, if Kelly Leak can beat him again, wouldn't that make him a legit contender? Mythical Power came back to dominate the Lone Star Derby. What if he beats MTB again in the Haskell and/or Travers? Wouldn't he have a case too? Let's see how things play out.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Kasept

TFM,

The decision was made well before the race that Mine That Bird was going to be taken back and come with one run. As soon as they saw that they could get into the Derby with their earnings, Woolley sought out Jerry Hissam, Borel's agent, and told him what they were looking to do and that they wanted Borel specifically. While the break exacerbated the 'take back/one run' scenario, it wasn't happenstance that the gelding was coming from well off the pace in the Derby.

If that is the case, why did the owner 'downed my head in disgust when they went by the frontstretch for the first time'??? I think I remember Fu-Man-Chu saying he was expecting Borel to have him a few lengths off the pace but was surprised to see him drop completely out of it early.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

If that is the case, why did the owner 'downed my head in disgust when they went by the frontstretch for the first time'??? I think I remember Fu-Man-Chu saying he was expecting Borel to have him a few lengths off the pace nut was surprised to see him drop completely out of it early.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Come on, man, after the race they definitely planned to take him back to last all along. Kind of like when you want to bet the 4, mispunch and bet the 5, and win. You know you wanted the 5 all along.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

If that is the case, why did the owner 'downed my head in disgust when they went by the frontstretch for the first time'??? I think I remember Fu-Man-Chu saying he was expecting Borel to have him a few lengths off the pace but was surprised to see him drop completely out of it early.

Correct me if I am wrong.

you are correct , he never expected him to be that far back in the derby that is what he said on NBC after the race, being last is one thing , being where he was , that was not a plan , unless you subscribe to the fact (which i have seen on another board) that they knew they had the "goods" to win and the sunland races were just used to give the horse some works for the derby , no one here knows how this horse trained coming into the derby , he may have been rating him the entire time in the am works out at sunland or wherever and knew the horse could fly from off a quick pace - he has just run 2 beyers over 105 from low 80's in sunland , surely these connections were doing something wrong at sunland or they weren't trying in the sunland races there is no other explanation

fact remains this horse just ran two very fast races and nothing in his form suggested before ky that he could do any of this

[gales0678]

i would also add that MTB at this point is not a "fluke" - before RA was going to go to the preakness i said why not MTB , he can pair up and win again against this crop - yet the skeptics here claimed is was an abnormality

nbc also said on sat that he ran the fastest last qtr in the derby since Secretariat so this horse has to be a tremendous animal no matter what the beyers or rags say

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by gales0678

you are correct , he never expected him to be that far back in the derby that is what he said on NBC after the race, being last is one thing , being where he was , that was not a plan , unless you subscribe to the fact (which i have seen on another board) that they knew they had the "goods" to win and the sunland races were just used to give the horse some works for the derby , no one here knows how this horse trained coming into the derby , he may have been rating him the entire time in the am works out at sunland or wherever and knew the horse could fly from off a quick pace - he has just run 2 beyers over 105 from low 80's in sunland , surely these connections were doing something wrong at sunland or they weren't trying in the sunland races there is no other explanation

fact remains this horse just ran two very fast races and nothing in his form suggested before ky that he could do any of this

The Brokeback Mountain guys never knew what they had...Wooley was 1-32 coming into the derby. It would be like Calzone Sciacca winning the BC Classic.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Fast forward to 1:10 into the interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqvPm3WWYg8


The trainer said he wanted him back at the front of the second flight of horses.

Sounded more like he wanted him about 11th or 12th early.

I assume Borel just wanted to take him back far enough to where he knew he'd have the rail the whole race.

He remains the only jockey in history who i've ever seen get to the rail in less than a 1/16th of a mile while starting from post position 16. He achieved that with Denis Of Cork in last year's Derby.