Delaware should throw in extra $500k for RA & Zenyatta - Page 2

letswastemoney · #21 05-30-2009, 12:44 AM

Shirreffs is the most chicken trainer I've ever read about. He's afraid of a wet racetrack, facing males with a horse clearly capable of facing males, stretching out Zenyatta to 10 furlongs....

eajinabi · #22 05-30-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, the best compromise would be a meeting in the fall at saratoga. it's not as tho the mosses never ship-it wouldn't be outrageous to expect them to ship a horse this year that they shipped last year, knowing full well that the bc was in fact in the same location as it will be this fall. i think their reasoning rings hollow. what i really think it is, is that they feel due to rachels running style she would most likely have the upper hand in a meeting. they also probably recognize that HOY will be out of their grasp unless they also chose to face the boys as well, so what would be the point in risking a defeat? may as well try to go out undefeated with their mare. she obviously likes it where she is-and they can certainly dare jackson to come west.

The Zenyatta team probably think they have the better horse and would rather not chase RA by shipping her east side. If they want to meet then RA should be chasing Zenyatta. Besides Santa Anita is the host of this years Breeders Cup so its probably best to stay put and chill till then. RA can meet Zenyatta if she goes in the ladies classic but anywhere else seems unlikely.

tector · #23 05-30-2009, 01:47 AM

California racing was the most goddamned boring thing I ever encountered back when simulcasting expanded in the 90s--a largely closed circuit, with the same horses running at the same tracks with largely unvarying weather conditions (except for a couple of months in the winter).

The advent of polymania out there has made the situation much, much worse. It is a complete disgrace that the BC dumped their event there two years in a row. Every few years? Fine. Two years running--a joke.

Kasept · #24 05-30-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Shirreffs is the most chicken trainer I've ever read about. He's afraid of a wet racetrack, facing males with a horse clearly capable of facing males, stretching out Zenyatta to 10 furlongs....

John Shirreffs is one of the best trainers and most clever operators in the game. He doesn't own the horse, and he and stable manager Dottie Ingordo are simply trying to put Zenyatta in the best possible scenarios. You don't know what they and the Mosses are facing with her currently, and if they are going to have to nurse her through this campaign for reasons they don't need to discus publicly...

And you absolutely NEVER bring a big, heavy horse like Zenyatta back from a layoff on a wet, hard racetrack unless you are anxious for trouble. Ask Frank Brothers about running First Samurai on a sea of Gulfstream slop in the Hutcheson in his first start at three. He got into that record-breaking gut-wrencher with Keyed Entry and NEITHER were ever the same after that.

As it happened, the track at Churchill Oaks Day would have been OK for Zenyatta by the time that Distaff ran, but Shirreffs took the prudent course.

Kasept · #25 05-30-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

That's a very interesting race - there are four at 10-1+ that look intriguing to me if the chalk is the hanger he appears to be. The Weaver piece, the Hennig, the 1/2 to Summer Patriot, and the Penna Venezuelan bred.

The Weaver horse (Boots Ahead) is VERY interesting in there at 15-1. I'm using.

golfer · #26 05-30-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The Weaver horse (Boots Ahead) is VERY interesting in there at 15-1. I'm using.

I think it's time for Chapin Beach to get back or close to that debut number.

Kasept · #27 05-30-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

I think it's time for Chapin Beach to get back or close to that debut number.

Using him too..

Danzig · #28 05-30-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

The fall at Saratoga? Did I miss the announcement about the meeting being extended again?

omg.
i so beg your pardon. late summer.

Danzig · #29 05-30-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

The Zenyatta team probably think they have the better horse and would rather not chase RA by shipping her east side. If they want to meet then RA should be chasing Zenyatta. Besides Santa Anita is the host of this years Breeders Cup so its probably best to stay put and chill till then. RA can meet Zenyatta if she goes in the ladies classic but anywhere else seems unlikely.

like they did last year?

smuthg · #30 05-30-2009, 10:14 AM

I know this is along way off and doubtful that Zenyatta will still be around, but what about getting the good folks at Oaklawn (a track that they both have had success at) to sweeten the pot for the GI Apple Blossom? Maybe $500k to show up and an additional $500k to the winner? They'd draw 60,000 folks for that race and could easily cover the additional costs...

Danzig · #31 05-30-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg

I know this is along way off and doubtful that Zenyatta will still be around, but what about getting the good folks at Oaklawn (a track that they both have had success at) to sweeten the pot for the GI Apple Blossom? Maybe $500k to show up and an additional $500k to the winner? They'd draw 60,000 folks for that race and could easily cover the additional costs...

i doubt either will still be around by then.

The Indomitable DrugS · #32 05-30-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

The major one I can think of off the top of my head is Unbridled Belle -

I would not agree that Unbridled Belle was a horse who ran much better at Delaware Park than other tracks.

She beat Amandatude by a neck in one of her stakes wins there - and was 2nd to Peak Maria's Way in stake defeat.

She won the Delaware Handicap by 7.75 lengths with a 104 Beyer over Lilla Page .. but two races later she ran back to that 104 Beyer when she won the Beldame at Belmont Park at like 6/1.

She beat Copper State while totally loose on the lead in the following years Obeah .. than was routed next out by Hystericaladly in the Delaware Cap. Her 3rd place finish in her first start after her two final Delaware races got her back to that figure.

To me - she was about the same horse at Delaware Park as elsewhere numbers wise .. and if you look at the horses who were 2nd to her in those Delaware wins ... Moravia, Amandatude, Lila Paige, and Copper State .. it's like a who's who of claiming horses.

hockey2315 · #33 05-30-2009, 11:36 AM

She sucked everywhere IMO. . . just a little less at Delaware - but I don't have her PPs or anything to go over her trips. . .

The Indomitable DrugS · #34 05-30-2009, 11:41 AM

To me - the true Delaware park dirt horses for courses are just about any of the ones that Gorham trains going long over about the last 8 years.

hockey2315 · #35 05-30-2009, 12:13 PM

Just experienced some painful Adore the Gold flashbacks - thanks, Drugs.

chucklestheclown · #36 05-30-2009, 02:25 PM

What's wrong with Zenyatta kasept?

eajinabi · #37 05-30-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

like they did last year?

You tell me this:

Prior to the Apple Blossom, Zenyatta was 3 for 3 which included a MSW, ALWX1 and a 150k G2. Do you think the Zenyatta team felt they had the best horse at that point? No, so they followed Ginger Punch to Oaklawn to prove that they did and won convincingly. After the oaklawn win, they stayed in So. Cal and we all know what damage they did since. This year, there is no need to chase anyone, anywhere to prove anything.

Danzig · #38 05-30-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

You tell me this:

Prior to the Apple Blossom, Zenyatta was 3 for 3 which included a MSW, ALWX1 and a 150k G2. Do you think the Zenyatta team felt they had the best horse at that point? No, so they followed Ginger Punch to Oaklawn to prove that they did and won convincingly. After the oaklawn win, they stayed in So. Cal and we all know what damage they did since. This year, there is no need to chase anyone, anywhere to prove anything.

you do recall they shipped her to kentucky for her debut this year? that due to weather, she was a scratch. i guess they don't want to ship and take a chance on not running again. whatever.

ateamstupid · #39 05-30-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

You tell me this:

Prior to the Apple Blossom, Zenyatta was 3 for 3 which included a MSW, ALWX1 and a 150k G2. Do you think the Zenyatta team felt they had the best horse at that point? No, so they followed Ginger Punch to Oaklawn to prove that they did and won convincingly. After the oaklawn win, they stayed in So. Cal and we all know what damage they did since. This year, there is no need to chase anyone, anywhere to prove anything.

I'd say there's something to prove, considering she beats up on the same lousy horses on the tires all year long. Beating Ginger Punch in a five-horse field doesn't really do it for me. You really think she's done all there is for a mare to do? I don't.

eajinabi · #40 05-30-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'd say there's something to prove, considering she beats up on the same lousy horses on the tires all year long. Beating Ginger Punch in a five-horse field doesn't really do it for me. You really think she's done all there is for a mare to do? I don't.

Undefetaed 10 for 10, 8 Graded stakes wins of 4 were G1
I am not sure what else you want her to do? Unless you want them to ship to Europe or Japan. She beat all those that showed up and RA connections know where to find her. Breeders Cup is the best venue for RA and Zenyatta to meet. Anywhere else would be another 5 horse field in a phony race at a phony track. And even if Zenyatta wins, you still wont be satisfied.