Cash for Clunkers Success

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

If your car or truck is worth more than 4500.00, it makes no sense to trade it in for cash for clunkers because that is all you get.

right, no trade in because of the requirement that the vehicle be destroyed....i guess using my truck was a bad example.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Do you believe it will cut down the amount? If so, I've got a bridge I'll sell ya.

Anyone else think it won't play a part in reducing the amount of gas used by Americans? Join coach's club of f'n brilliance.

[JJP]

Guess what vehicles are still eligible to be bought in this program? Yukons, Hummers and Suburbans. So much for less gas being used.

The real problem with this program is that its just taking away sales that figured to happen 6 months or a year or two down the line. So we'll see a short term jump in auto sales but in 2010 they will fall again. Right in time for us to re-enter a recessionary period again.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by JJP

Guess what vehicles are still eligible to be bought in this program? Yukons, Hummers and Suburbans. So much for less gas being used.

These are the models you can trade in. They are maily trucks n' SUVs from the 90's. Some medium to large cars also.

http://www.edmunds.com/cash-for-clun...-vehicles.html

In all situations involved, there WILL be gas saved. You can't trade a light truck (or a car) in to buy a Hummer. You would have to trade something in that's even worse than a Hummer. It can't cost more than 45k. You must upgrade your mpg, and/or efficiency(cleaner.) Don't you think people trading in a heavy SUV are going to be more interested in saving $4500 on a 20k car than on a 44k truck? Remember that the value of what your trading in is gunna be more likely to be worth less if it's smaller than the types you mentioned. Think about what you're saying. O.K.? If you have some massive SUV from the 90's, you can save 20-25% off the price of a car, or 10% off of the price of another big gas guzzler(one that's not quite as wasteful as the one you're trading in.) All the incentive is aimed at trading in that big SUV for something with much better gas mileage. If you want to only save 10% on the price, then be my guest. You gunna rush to do that? If you do, it's still a small savings in gas. They are not gunna give you a $4500 discount if you don't improve the gas efficiency(if you only save slightly on the mpg, you'll also only save about 10% on the price of something big like that.)


New car has to cost less than 45k.

Min. Fuel Economy for New Vehicle Passenger Car =22 mpg ..to get $3500 voucher need 4 mpg Mileage improvement....for $4500 voucher need an improvement of 10 mpg

min. fuel economy for Light-Duty Truck (under 6k lbs)= 18 mpg..to get $3500 voucher need 2 mpg Mileage improvement....for $4500 voucher need an improvement of 5 mpg

min fuel economy for Large Light-Duty Trucks(6k - 8.5k lbs)= 15 mpg..to get $3500 voucher need 1 mpg Mileage improvement....for $4500 voucher need an improvement of 2 mpg

Commercial trucks(8.5k - 10k lbs)= n/a Trade-in must be at least pre-2002

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

So where's the success?

OMG. O.K...Look at the mpg these most being traded in are getting:

Ford F-Series
Ford Explorer
Chevrolet C/K/Silverado
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Dodge Ram
Chevrolet Blazer
Jeep Cherokee
Dodge Grand Caravan
Dodge Dakota
Ford Ranger

Now how many mpg are the following getting?

1: Ford Focus
2: Toyota Corolla
3: Honda Civic
4: Toyota Prius
5: Toyota Camry
6: Ford Escape
7: Hyundai Elantra
8: Dodge Caliber
9: Honda Fit
10: Chevrolet Cobalt

Seriously? You're asking where the savings is? Gas, sir. A lot of it. That's a Government program that's working nicely to save gas. It maybe the smartest American Government program ever. Giving people an incentive to trade in gas guzzlers, and buy gas savers? Yea, it's a total no-brainer. Somebody was thinking.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by JJP

Guess what vehicles are still eligible to be bought in this program? Yukons, Hummers and Suburbans. So much for less gas being used.

The real problem with this program is that its just taking away sales that figured to happen 6 months or a year or two down the line. So we'll see a short term jump in auto sales but in 2010 they will fall again. Right in time for us to re-enter a recessionary period again.

i thought they had to have a fairly high mpg?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i thought they had to have a fairly high mpg?

If they want to get $4500 off a Hummer, then they have to trade in something that gets worse mpg than a Hummer gets. That's important.

Even if you have something as bad on gas as a Hummer, the model of Hummer you could buy has to cost less than 45k. Why would you want 10% off ($4500 of 45k) of something when you can get 20-25% off of a car that costs 18-25k? You can see the list Dell put up. They trading in big trucks n' SUVs, but buying 25 mpg cars(not Hummers.) They probably allow people to trade in something big(poor mpg) to buy something big (only a little tiny improvement in mpg) because it allows people a lot of freedom to do what they want, but all the incentives are naturally encouraging them to buy something smaller. You want to pay 40k for a lousy Hummer model, or pay 15-20k for a 20-25k priced car? It's your choice, but only if you've got something from the 90's as bad on gas as a Hummer. People aren't gunna be able to trade a '99 Monte Carlo in for a $4500 voucher towards a Hummer. They have to buy something 10 mpg better than the Monte Carlo (if they want the $4500.)

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Anyone else think it won't play a part in reducing the amount of gas used by Americans? Join coach's club of f'n brilliance.

Yes exchanging a car for 1 mpg improvement is going to dramatically reduce emissions. Forget the fact that people drive more when they get a new car.

Dur. It's like I'm talking to someone smoking bones.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well, even if it's done this way, it's still brilliant. Take a 15 mpg car off the road, and replace it with a 25 mpg car. Use 30,000 miles/year, and say $3.50 a gallon for gas. See what happens in 4 years of use. That's over $10k that will be available to be put back into the economy. Even if it's only the clunker discount amount that is returned into the economy, it's still 5k being kept away from terrorist-supporting Muslims. It's a no-brainer. Muhammad is up there in a full-diaper rage. How dare you cut down on the money the non-believers have to give his loyal followers. It's an outrage.



30,000miles/ 25mpg =[1200gallons] x $3.50/gallon=[$4200/year] x 4years =$16.8k

30,000/15 = [2000] x $3.50=$7000 x 4= $28k

only problem is people drive 12K miles a year on average and gas at least here is $2.80/gallon

so 12,000 miles/25mpg = 480 gallons x $2.80/gallon= $1300/year X 4 years= $5,200

12,000 miles/15mpg = 800 gallons x $2.80/gallon= $2240/year x 4 years= $8,960

a savings of $3,760 over 4 years.

I'm not saying that cutting consumption is a bad thing and I love the fact we'll be less reliant on arab and venezuelan oil but people we're going to make the change to more efficient cars on their own without being bribed using tax payer money with only a small fraction being used on G.M. products. The real benefactors in this were Toyota and Honda.

GM and Ford continue to make crap sans their trucks (ever drive a Cobalt or Focus?)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Anyone else think it won't play a part in reducing the amount of gas used by Americans? Join coach's club of f'n brilliance.

I dont think it will so I am a member of the club.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

OMG. O.K...Look at the mpg these most being traded in are getting:

Ford F-Series
Ford Explorer
Chevrolet C/K/Silverado
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Dodge Ram
Chevrolet Blazer
Jeep Cherokee
Dodge Grand Caravan
Dodge Dakota
Ford Ranger

Now how many mpg are the following getting?

1: Ford Focus
2: Toyota Corolla
3: Honda Civic
4: Toyota Prius
5: Toyota Camry
6: Ford Escape
7: Hyundai Elantra
8: Dodge Caliber
9: Honda Fit
10: Chevrolet Cobalt

Seriously? You're asking where the savings is? Gas, sir. A lot of it. That's a Government program that's working nicely to save gas. It maybe the smartest American Government program ever. Giving people an incentive to trade in gas guzzlers, and buy gas savers? Yea, it's a total no-brainer. Somebody was thinking.

Yeah except now people with the new cars will drive them more!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think it will so I am a member of the club.

Shocking..

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah except now people with the new cars will drive them more!

Sure...Brilliance indeed...They are all gunna pleasure drive the gas savings away...If you can't come up with a good argument, just sell a foolish one. They will buy anything in here (if you appear confident.)

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Sure...Brilliance indeed...They are all gunna pleasure drive the gas savings away...If you can't come up with a good argument, just sell a foolish one. They will buy anything in here (if you appear confident.)

yea like the dems thinking the following is possitive proof the economy is improving

Bailouts for financial firms and billions in tax revenue lost because of the recession drove the deficit to a record $1.3 trillion in July, according to the independent Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

Tax receipts that have fallen due to the poor economy and increased spending to save car companies, banks and mortgage firms were major contributors to the federal deficit, according to CBO, which provides official budget numbers for Congress. The federal deficit grew by another $181 billion in July.

Spending through July of 2009 has increased by $530 billion, which is 21 percent over the same period in 2008. The bailout money for banks, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae accounted for almost half of the spending increase. Unemployment benefits have more than doubled, Medicaid spending has grown by a quarter and Medicare spending has increased by 11 percent.

Tax revenue for the first three quarters of 2009 has fallen by approximately $350 billion, or 17 percent compared to the same period last year, due mostly to the effects of the recession on payroll, income and corporate taxes. A third of the decline is due to tax breaks in the stimulus, including the middle-class tax cut that President Obama campaigned on during last year's election.

The independent budget scorekeeper has projected the deficit to reach $1.8 trillion by the end of the fiscal year, Sept. 30. The deficit in 2008 reached $455 billion, which was a record at the time.

is the goal to increase the deficit cause if it is they're doing a heck of a job?

Beating the previous record set by Bush by 395% is something to be proud of and we haven't even seen the effect this healthcare bill and cap and trade will be. Maybe the goal is 1000%.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

yea like the dems thinking the following is possitive proof the economy is improving

Bailouts for financial firms and billions in tax revenue lost because of the recession drove the deficit to a record $1.3 trillion in July, according to the independent Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

Tax receipts that have fallen due to the poor economy and increased spending to save car companies, banks and mortgage firms were major contributors to the federal deficit, according to CBO, which provides official budget numbers for Congress. The federal deficit grew by another $181 billion in July.

Spending through July of 2009 has increased by $530 billion, which is 21 percent over the same period in 2008. The bailout money for banks, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae accounted for almost half of the spending increase. Unemployment benefits have more than doubled, Medicaid spending has grown by a quarter and Medicare spending has increased by 11 percent.

Tax revenue for the first three quarters of 2009 has fallen by approximately $350 billion, or 17 percent compared to the same period last year, due mostly to the effects of the recession on payroll, income and corporate taxes. A third of the decline is due to tax breaks in the stimulus, including the middle-class tax cut that President Obama campaigned on during last year's election.

The independent budget scorekeeper has projected the deficit to reach $1.8 trillion by the end of the fiscal year, Sept. 30. The deficit in 2008 reached $455 billion, which was a record at the time.

is the goal to increase the deficit cause if it is they're doing a heck of a job?

Beating the previous record set by Bush by 395% is something to be proud of and we haven't even seen the effect this healthcare bill and cap and trade will be. Maybe the goal is 1000%.

dell you're not going to convince anyone that this isn't bush's fault because people just like to keep on the blinders ..... jeb will be ready in '12

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

yea like the dems thinking the following is possitive proof the economy is improving

I'm talking about this Cash for Clunkers. You guys are way off on this. Any way to get people into the models of gas-saving cars (that you listed 1 thru 10) is terrific. It's almost like any loyal CONSERVATIVE/ LIBERTARIAN etc. is afraid we're gunna cut down on the gas we use. I can feel the fear in the desperately drawn up arguments being made. The fear of success is pretty obvious.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I'm talking about this Cash for Clunkers. You guys are way off on this. Any way to get people into the models of gas-saving cars (that you listed 1 thru 10) is terrific. It's almost like any loyal CONSERVATIVE/ LIBERTARIAN etc. is afraid we're gunna cut down on the gas we use. I can feel the fear in the desperately drawn up arguments being made. The fear of success is pretty obvious.

I was referring to your statement "If you can't come up with a good argument, just sell a foolish one. They will buy anything in here (if you appear confident.)"

Kind of like the quote by Joe Biden listed as my signature

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by gales0678

dell you're not going to convince anyone that this isn't bush's fault because people just like to keep on the blinders ..... jeb will be ready in '12

Marty I thnk I may have heard our candidate speak last night on CSPAN. His name is Herman Cain and doesn't he look Presidential?

[Smooth Operator]

He looks like one of my old hs b-ball coaches.



Jeb and Herman, eh





Somehow I don't think BO is quivering in fear ... lol

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

He looks like one of my old hs b-ball coaches.



Jeb and Herman, eh





Somehow I don't think BO is quivering in fear ... lol

that's racist LOL