Lord Kipling Odds Drop 2 Minutes In

[cmorioles]

There are also big bets being canceled after the break...that is fact and allowed at many tracks around the country.

Those canceled bets aren't on horses that break well and go to the front either.

[chucklestheclown]

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by GBBob

So who is in on this conspiracy?

Sorry Bob..you have to be a Republican to use the secret window.

[andrasi]

I'll put Northfield Park up against any track for allowing cancelled bets at the start, and gate callers an extra second or two. The High Roller room lets those boys get away with murder, and that is a fact. For those who dont remember or know, the story of the clerks from the Florida dog tracks in the late 70's. Dont want to misquote story, but the high low was they had a way to punch a few tickets after race complete. Really amazing, especially how they got popped. Its is the SI archives. think the title was Win, Place, or Steal.

[Kasept]

I don't have time to give a thorough explanation, but as has been brought up here and on air several times, the video packages that display odds on screen are directly involved in the appearences of odds increases or decreases.

1.) Odds that the video displays start with the numbers that are an estimated 93% of the pool 30-45 seconds before the start of the race.

2.) There is another tabulation before the gates open which will be the second set of reflected odds displayed on screen and are an estimated 97% of the pool.

3.) The final odds are reflected after the 'flush' 10 seconds into a race.

The changes on screen reflect these snapshots of the odds ONLY IF THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE IN THE RUNNING ORDER OF THE HORSES. So there is frequently a lag in the odds being reflected.

It's funny how no one ever notes when there are increases in odds on screen. Of course it happens in completely equal proportion to decreases... Happened to bring one up on air a few weeks ago in fact...

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

There are also big bets being canceled after the break...that is fact and allowed at many tracks around the country.

Those canceled bets aren't on horses that break well and go to the front either.

I know a former teller that stated at most tracks there is one machine that allows you to cancel tickets up to 45 seconds into the race in case they screw up on a large wager, they have the opportunity to cancel it and not have to pay out of their own pockets.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't have time to give a thorough explanation, but as has been brought up here and on air several times, the video packages that display odds on screen are directly involved in the appearences of odds increases or decreases.

1.) Odds that the video displays start with the numbers that are an estimated 93% of the pool 30-45 seconds before the start of the race.

2.) There is another tabulation before the gates open which will be the second set of reflected odds displayed on screen and are an estimated 97% of the pool.

3.) The final odds are reflected after the 'flush' 10 seconds into a race.

The changes on screen reflect these snapshots of the odds ONLY IF THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE IN THE RUNNING ORDER OF THE HORSES. So there is frequently a lag in the odds being reflected.

It's funny how no one ever notes when there are increases in odds on screen. Of course it happens in completely equal proportion to decreases... Happened to bring one up on air a few weeks ago in fact...

In all my years of gambling, I have never had an exacta pay more than the final blink on the screen as they got into the gate, never.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by kgar311

I know a former teller that stated at most tracks there is one machine that allows you to cancel tickets up to 45 seconds into the race in case they screw up on a large wager, they have the opportunity to cancel it and not have to pay out of their own pockets.

wasn't there a teller who had it down pat and could get down a big win bet if he saw the lone speed break well from the gate .... i think it was at GP or somewhere down in florida or like you say above the teller could cxl the ticket in time if the lone speed didn't break well and lost all chance at the start, who polices the tellers?

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by gales0678

wasn't there a teller who had it down pat and could get down a big win bet if he saw the lone speed break well from the gate .... i think it was at GP or somewhere down in florida or like you say above the teller could cxl the ticket in time if the lone speed didn't break well and lost all chance at the start, who polices the tellers?

The tracks know this is going on, they cant afford a huge scandal so they keep it on the hush hush. For the most part its the regular heavy hitters that have this down pat, they sure cant afford to lose the high rollers.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't have time to give a thorough explanation, but as has been brought up here and on air several times, the video packages that display odds on screen are directly involved in the appearences of odds increases or decreases.

1.) Odds that the video displays start with the numbers that are an estimated 93% of the pool 30-45 seconds before the start of the race.

2.) There is another tabulation before the gates open which will be the second set of reflected odds displayed on screen and are an estimated 97% of the pool.

3.) The final odds are reflected after the 'flush' 10 seconds into a race.

The changes on screen reflect these snapshots of the odds ONLY IF THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE IN THE RUNNING ORDER OF THE HORSES. So there is frequently a lag in the odds being reflected.

It's funny how no one ever notes when there are increases in odds on screen. Of course it happens in completely equal proportion to decreases... Happened to bring one up on air a few weeks ago in fact...

when people get excited over a pool inefficiency with one of the chalks, and then while of course thousands of other dollars also bet it from home on their computers in the final available seconds, it has become popular to cry foul. These cases probably are 98% situations where everybody with a pc and an ADW account bet the horse with zero minutes to post because he was a "steal".

However past posting probably does occur sometimes, as does past canceling/ odds manipulation. I've video captured the pool money a few times when horses that don't figure have a couple thousand dollars "too much" in certain pools, early in the betting, to see if I spot a cancel or odds manipulation but I haven't caught it yet.

Maybe the odds aren't a good idea to show on the screen anymore?
Things should be done to alleviate both the perception and the real threat of it happening. High speed internet isn't THAT expensive, we are just sending data around...

[cmorioles]

Of course the tracks always have an explanation for everything. I don't believe them. There have been too many cases recently of past posting that we know about. I imagine those we don't know about are tenfold.

Tenfold is about the amount I've decreased my betting this year. The game just sucks right now for the most part. It is amazing how outdated the whole tote system is, and nobody seems to care.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Maybe the odds aren't a good idea to show on the screen anymore?

Things should be done to alleviate both the perception and the real threat of it happening. High speed internet isn't THAT expensive, we are just sending data around...

I was going to say it but figured that would be met with derision.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

it's worth mentioning that the horse paid $6.90.

he dropped from "5-2" to 2.45-1.
46K on kipling total


the concerns are valid. there shouldn't be odds changes this late into the race, whether its on the level or not.

you are right on! the odds barely moved. why would anyone complain, that horse was an overlay.

[randallscott35]

Steve,

All I can say is, I chose a race that was 2 miles long on purpose. If ever there was a time in shouldn't have happened, that was it...I would have no problem with them closing betting when they start loading.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you are right on! the odds barely moved. why would anyone complain, that horse was an overlay.

Ok that's idiotic, the horse could've been 2.9-1 before the 2.45 to one click. We don't know....But saying what you said makes it sound like you should just make a donation to the track.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Steve,

All I can say is, I chose a race that was 2 miles long on purpose. If ever there was a time in shouldn't have happened, that was it...I would have no problem with them closing betting when they start loading.

Rand..

It might not matter until the video display package and tote system are updated/automated/integrated more thoroughly. Now, there is STILL going to be a slight lag from the final flushes of the system and how they appear on screen. If horses stay in that same order ALL THE WAY around, the prices could be completely different than what was shown THE ENTIRE RACE.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Rand..

It might not matter until the video display package and tote system are updated/automated/integrated more thoroughly. Now, there is STILL going to be a slight lag from the final flushes of the system and how they appear on screen. If horses stay in that same order ALL THE WAY around, the prices could be completely different than what was shown THE ENTIRE RACE.

I was careful to note that I did not think it was a conspiracy in my intial post, but after scandals in racing, in particular the BC Cup of '01 and various Pick 4s of that year, racing needs to do everything possible to keep even the perception of chicanery from happening.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Kasept

CJ,

I know this topic is VERY central to your concerns for the game, and am glad you made the suggestion... I was going to say it but figured that would be met with derision.

Wait until CJ sees you mistook him for Bobby Fischer.



I hope you have a good lawyer Steve.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Wait until CJ sees you mistook him for Bobby Fischer.



I hope you have a good lawyer Steve.

OMG... I did in fact mistake the author. In this case, an outrageously egregious error.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Kasept

OMG... I did in fact mistake the author. In this case, an outrageously egregious error.

Hopefully CJ recovers from such a vicious attack.........