Borel should be fined or suspended

[MaTH716]

With all the bad/wrong things that go on in the sport, you pick on a jockey trying to get his horse to the wire first in a Grade 1 race (not to mention all the other history attached to the race).

[Sightseek]

I kind of understand what Buckpasser is saying here and while most of you are looking at this from a horseplaying perspective and you want your jockey giving his all - several people have asked me how I can be a "horse person" and watch them hit the horses so frequently - granted their whips are not like the whips we ride with.

There are people (and not PETA freaks) who think it looks cruel and I think what Buckpasser may have been getting at is that for a filly who could possibly be in the national spotlight and get people interested in watching or attending the races - Calvin going to the whip that many times may not be perceived positively.

[fpsoxfan]

Will we ever just be able to just enjoy yesterday for what it was? Some of you folks are really amazing sometimes. Maybe we should just have the horses run without jocks like greyhound racing. You people wonder why horse racing is going down the drain when people like us on forums like this can't even agree on some of the fundamentals of the sport. Wow! It's just too much.

[Buckpasser]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I kind of understand what Buckpasser is saying here and while most of you are looking at this from a horseplaying perspective and you want your jockey giving his all - several people have asked me how I can be a "horse person" and watch them hit the horses so frequently - granted their whips are not like the whips we ride with.

There are people (and not PETA freaks) who think it looks cruel and I think what Buckpasser may have been getting at is that for a filly who could possibly be in the national spotlight and get people interested in watching or attending the races - Calvin going to the whip that many times may not be perceived positively.

Exactly!

[Buckpasser]

To BIGSMC:

Let's see, you were 3 for 36 in the Saratoga Meet Contest or 8.3% that was great. Keep up the great 'capping

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Buckpasser

To BIGSMC:

Let's see, you were 3 for 36 in the Saratoga Meet Contest or 8.3% that was great. Keep up the great 'capping

Be careful buckslob, you might be getting in over your head.

[Buckpasser]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Be careful buckslob, you might be getting in over your head.

Is the avatar a picture of you......"slob"

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Buckpasser

Is the avatar a picture of you......"slob"

Now that's funny. Get a life.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Buckpasser

To BIGSMC:

Let's see, you were 3 for 36 in the Saratoga Meet Contest or 8.3% that was great. Keep up the great 'capping

Good one, you got me there.

Just keep on thinking that the amount of times a horse is struck with a whip can lead to a bounce and we're all good.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Good one, you got me there.

Just keep on thinking that the amount of times a horse is struck with a whip can lead to a bounce and we're all good.

Amazing the people that come out of the brush when crazy things happen in the industry. The natives get restless!!!

[Travis Stone]

I didn't notice the whipping, I was too busy watching one of the most exciting stretch drives of all time.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Borel went to the whip a lot later than most jockeys would have.

he peppered her for all of about 13 seconds.

I don't know if there is any single thing more overrated than the whip. I love it when horses win in hand and people assume they would have run much faster had they been put to an all out drive.

If I was a trainer or owner .. I'd slightly prefer to see my horse ridden out through the wire in the stretch than win in hand. I only say that because of an old study I saw on horses who win "handily" and "easily" and how they fare next out.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Borel went to the whip a lot later than most jockeys would have.

he peppered her for all of about 13 seconds.

I don't know if there is any single thing more overrated than the whip. I love it when horses win in hand and people assume they would have run much faster had they been put to an all out drive.

If I was a trainer or owner .. I'd slightly prefer to see my horse ridden out through the wire in the stretch than win in hand. I only say that because of an old study I saw on horses who win "handily" and "easily" and how they fare next out.

Which concluded?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Buckpasser

He totally abused Rachael down the stretch. I counted 20 times Borel went to the whip. I am not one to cry animal abuse but I haven't seen that much whipping in a very long time. Would not surprise me if Rachael were to bounce in her next start because of it.

What about Desormeaux's abusive ride on Big Brown in last years Preakness?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

I am glad I am playing against you in the parimutuel pools.

Took the words outta my mouth. Yeah if she 'bounces' it'll definitely be because he hit her 19 times instead of 12.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I kind of understand what Buckpasser is saying here and while most of you are looking at this from a horseplaying perspective and you want your jockey giving his all - several people have asked me how I can be a "horse person" and watch them hit the horses so frequently - granted their whips are not like the whips we ride with.

There are people (and not PETA freaks) who think it looks cruel and I think what Buckpasser may have been getting at is that for a filly who could possibly be in the national spotlight and get people interested in watching or attending the races - Calvin going to the whip that many times may not be perceived positively.

What would have the perception been if? Calvin put the whip away, then hand rid her to the finish and got caught at the wire. Then all the same people (who probably would have lost then), will accuse and complain that Calvin did not do enough on a 1-4 shot and that the whole race and game must be fixed.

Unfortunately, if you are a fan of the game you know that sometimes that it's not the most humane thing in the world. But I'm sure Calvin's actions pale in comparision to what other jockeys and trainers were doing across the nation yesterday (most likely in very cheap races). Try watching Mountaineer and the way they work (probably sore and lame) horses just to come in the top 5.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Scav

Which concluded?

In general, they tend to regress next out and aren't good bets.

Very likely has more to do with other factors though.

[jballscalls]

gotta disagree with the original post. I've seen jocks hit way more than 20 times down the stretch. didn't see anything wrong with calvin's performance down the lane

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I kind of understand what Buckpasser is saying here and while most of you are looking at this from a horseplaying perspective and you want your jockey giving his all - several people have asked me how I can be a "horse person" and watch them hit the horses so frequently - granted their whips are not like the whips we ride with.

There are people (and not PETA freaks) who think it looks cruel and I think what Buckpasser may have been getting at is that for a filly who could possibly be in the national spotlight and get people interested in watching or attending the races - Calvin going to the whip that many times may not be perceived positively.

I pretty much agree with Sightseek here. You have Calvin saying after the race (as quoted in DRF), "Hitting her is not going to make her run faster. I think when a horse is going to come up to her, that's when you'll see her run. She does what she has to do." Really? Then why did you hit her 19 times in the stretch?

Did Rachel show the "determination of a champion" yesterday? Did she not want to get beat, or was she just running like hell because Calvin was on autowhip?

There's a disconnect with how much we admire these horses and the amount of punishment we are willing to to see inflicted upon them.

--Dunbar

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I pretty much agree with Sightseek here. You have Calvin saying after the race (as quoted in DRF), "Hitting her is not going to make her run faster. I think when a horse is going to come up to her, that's when you'll see her run. She does what she has to do." Really? Then why did you hit her 19 times in the stretch?

Because he was in a desperate position....and when in a desperate position you do everything you can do even if it won't much help at all.

If you think going to the whip makes her come home faster ... go watch her Oaks win.

You guys are acting like you've never seen a horse put into an all out drive for an eigth of a mile before.