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#21
10-24-2009, 11:45 PM
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He was kind of a poor mans Any Given Saturday. 
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#22
10-25-2009, 12:02 AM
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The Westchester and Brooklyn?? I guess Cigar beats him again by a nose in the Woodward?  His intended campaign was supposed to be... Olympic Donn Santa Anita Handicap Met Mile Iselin Woodward BC Classic
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#23
10-25-2009, 12:19 AM
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#24
10-25-2009, 12:35 AM
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What - you think Bluegrass Cat was a great horse?
Here are the final 6 starts of his career: * 2nd by 2 to Deputy Glitters in the Tampa Derby * 4th by 21 lengths to Sinister Minister in the Blue Grass * 2nd by 6.5 lengths to the slayer of Sharp Humor in the Ky Derby at a mere 30/1 odds in a race where Brother Derek was the ML favorite and Sweetnorthernsaint was post time favorite. Current steeplechase horse Steppenwolfer was 3rd. * 2nd by 1.25 lengths to Jazil in the Belmont. Jazil still has alw conditions * 1st by 7 in the Haskell Stakes. Praying For Cash was 2nd. The same Praying For Cash who was last seen running 8th beaten 13 lengths at 23/1 odds in an opt claiming race at DELTA Downs. * 2nd beaten 7.5 lengths to Bernardini in the Travers.
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#25
10-25-2009, 12:46 AM
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Capote, Houston, Ketoh (oh yeah, he died), Althea, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. He was implying Sunday Silence was better than Easy Goer, something I'm not convinced of. He was saying Java Gold had a soft schedule compared to the rest of the crop. He obviously had no appreciation for King Glorious (the horse), as yeah, he is certainly one of those overlooked horses in history that most people did not appreciate. I don't know what he was thinking with Dinard. That horse was a near certainty to win his derby. EOTY I agree with him, sorta. I doubt he could have beaten that field. I'm with you on Arazi too. What a waste. I always felt that that ******* trainer sabotaged him to prove his point. The last bits of his post I thought were good. Except for Candy Ride losing to PP. Of course, had Grand Canyon and Landaluce not died AND not been Lukas'd, who knows what they could have achieved.
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#26
10-25-2009, 01:05 AM
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How come to be "Lukas'd" doesn't mean to be like:
Tank's Prospect Winning Colors Tabasco Cat Thunder Gulch Timber Country Grindstone Editor's Note Charismatic Commendable Cat Thief Serena's Song Sharp Cat Lady's Secret Sacahuista I mean, he's had a little success with 3yos.
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#27
10-25-2009, 01:33 AM
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Tank's Prospect - won the preakness and DNF'd in the Belmont, never running again. Winning Colors - Never really the same after the Preakness. Stephens more to blame for that one I guess. Tabasco Cat - won the preakness and belmont, then closed out his career going 1 for 6. Thunder Gulch - Didn't make it to the BC of his 3yo year before being done. Timber Country - Retired after Preakness. Grindstone - I got a call a few minutes after the derby from a friend saying he was so messed up going into the derby, that immediately after the race the connections knew he was finished. Editor's Note - After his Super Derby win, ran 11 more times with one win, an alw race. That was his only ITM performance, and 7 of those 11 races were double digit losses. Charismatic - Broke down in the Belmont. Commendable - you gotta be kidding me. Cat Thief - Useful and did get the fluke BCC win. Worst crop in the last twenty years except for the Big Brown crop. Serena's Song - She stayed good for a long time. Tailed off a bit at the end. Sharp Cat - Got better with age. Lady's Secret - Tailed off pretty bad at the end there. Sacahuista - Nice filly Most of those you list tailed off real bad, burned out or got hurt. I also did mention he was more notorious with his 2yos in the 80s.
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#28
10-25-2009, 01:49 AM
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For a recent horse ... I would have liked to have seen Zaftig run on dirt again after her Acorn win last year.
In just her 5th lifetime start, Zaftig won the Acorn with a 113 Beyer. Since they've been published in the DRF in 1990, here are the top 3 all-time fastest winning Beyers in the Acorn. * 2008: Zaftig (113) * 1993: Sky Beauty (107) * 1997: Sharp Cat (103) At one point - Sky Beauty was 12-for-12 with 7 Grade 1 wins at Belmont Park. She was the queen of Belmont. Sharp Cat won back-to-back Grade 1's by daylight with Beyers of 112 and 119 at Belmont in her final two starts there. Zaftig ran exactly 8.5 lengths faster than the average winning Acorn figure... and the Acorn is a very serious race. Winners over that span include Meadow Star, Prospectors Delite, Sky Beauty, Inside Information, Sharp Cat, Jersey Girl, Three Ring, Bird Town, and Round Pond. Zaftig came back injured .. and made just one more start in her career. She finished 3rd off the layoff in last years synthetic BC Filly and Mare Sprint and got hurt again. It sounded a lot like her decision to run in the BC last year was an owners decision...and she was rushed to it.
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#29
10-25-2009, 02:04 AM
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Yeah, no doubt she was the best 3yo filly based in this country last year.
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#30
10-25-2009, 07:47 AM
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#31
10-25-2009, 08:19 AM
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Great, Bluegrass Cat? He was not even good. Roman Ruler was much much better.
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#33
10-25-2009, 10:42 AM
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see Man O War and Citation race.
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#34
10-25-2009, 12:00 PM
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Sound Big Brown VS sound War Pass.
Sound Quality Road VS sound I Want Revenge RA VS sound Zaftig, sound Icon Project, Careless Jewel, and Zenyatta at 9fs.
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#35
10-25-2009, 12:16 PM
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Surprised no one said for Cigar to stay on the dirt after his huge maiden win.
Cigar was from the all-time worst 3yo male crop ever .. had he stayed on dirt after that huge maiden win he'd probably go down as one of the 5 best horses ever. Might have won 26 in a row instead of just 16.
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#36
10-25-2009, 12:26 PM
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Secretariat run at 4 so there would be no question as to the greatest horse ever.
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#38
10-25-2009, 07:32 PM
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A deserving favorite perhaps, but then again, IIRC, Hansel was running much faster (at least in the Jim Beam). Obviously Hansel bombed on Derby day, but was his best race ultimately better than Dinard's? Quite possibly. What if he showed up on Derby Day? And what of Best Pal? Yes, Dinard got the better of him in the San Rafael (in Best Pal's 3yo debut off a 3 month layoff) and the Santa Anita Derby. But wasn't that somewhat of a winning profile for several Derby winners that decade? Silver Charm, Real Quiet, and Go For Gin were also only earning placings in their preps before "peaking" on Derby day. And in fact, Best Pal ran a huge race only to be beaten by Strike The Gold, who at the time was in very good form and getting as much press as any of the other principals. His typical Zito decline later on has no relevance here. Also of note is the results of the Strub series later that year when the roles between Dinard and Best Pal were reversed. Best Pal, in top form, was not threatened in the slightest by Dinard in either the San Fernando (at 9f) or the Strub (at 10f). Obviously, its quite possible Dinard's injury had residual effects that kept him from realizing his full potential, but obviously not enough to keep him from competing in Grade 1 events. Interestingly, both he and old rival Olympio never ran again after chasing Best Pal in the Strub series. Finally, Dinard worked notoriously poorly leading up to the Derby (6f in 1:18). Was he injured in the work? Probably, but he certainly didn't limp off the track (the injury wasn't detected until 4 or 5 days post-work), so it's still possible he didn't care for the CD surface. Last edited by RolloTomasi : 10-25-2009 at 07:54 PM.
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#39
10-25-2009, 07:46 PM
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Quality Road is serious, I wish they would lay him off till next year. He would be the best handicap horse around, I know its crazy to still think QR is better then Summer Bird, but I do. I think your overating Zatfig just a tad. Careless Jewel is ok, Zenyatta would have won The Woodward for fun, its a shame she did not come. Sadly enough Icon Project might have been the best of this group and we will never get to see it. All of my comments are based on dirt races, thats part of why I wish QR would be layed off till a Gulfstream campaign. I really beleive he is as good of a horse we have had in a few years. Summer Bird is a grinder, hes really good as well, but I feel QR if right can be BRILLANT.
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#40
10-25-2009, 08:14 PM
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