Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

to question why Rachel ran in the Preakness rather than Belmont and the Woodward rather than Travers but just assume that Zenyatta gets a pass on the joke of a schedule she had because she won the Classic.

NT

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that would supercede later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was decisive.

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

[kgar311]

If Zenyatta had run and won in the Pacific Classic instead of ducking that race I think the HOY voting would be alot closer. But she was ducking the males all year. RA ducked no one and took on all challenges HOY

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by CSC

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran the just one more race after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

You are basically asking for the impossible from one horse, but giving the other a complete pass at anything resembling a legitimate race schedule. You must have been a big fan of Southern Image and Kip Deville.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by kgar311

If Zenyatta had run and won in the Pacific Classic instead of ducking that race I think the HOY voting would be alot closer.

I actually think the scales tip at that point towards Zenyatta. All she needed to do in hindsight was one more 'outside the box' thing.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I actually think the scales tip at that point towards Zenyatta. All she needed to do in hindsight was one more 'outside the box' thing.

What's odd for me is that her connections have been so set on this horse of the year talk since last year's Breeder's Cup, you'd think they would have considered actually doing something with the horse to prove them right. Beating Lethal Heat four times just doesn't cut it. I'm sorry.

[DaTruth]

Since the Jockey Club Gold Cup was supposed to be the proving ground, why didn't Z show up there? I know that would mean actually leaving socal, but we do have these jet plane things.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time

Color me just a little shy of being able to believe that. If the campaign she had didn't impress you, and has left with you with so many uncountable knocks on her, nothing she could have done would have impressed you.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I actually think the scales tip at that point towards Zenyatta. All she needed to do in hindsight was one more 'outside the box' thing.

If the Breeders Cup had been held at Churchill, instead of Santa Anita, would you think the same way? I don't think you can hold the venue choice for the Breeders' Cup against Zenyatta.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Color me just a little shy of being able to believe that. If the campaign she had didn't impress you, and has left with you with so many uncountable knocks on her, nothing she could have done would have impressed you.

I mentioned more than once here she deserved HOY before Saturday, and it was only after Z's performance in the Classic that my mind changed.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

she ran 8 very hard races all year and the trainer even said she was spent after the Woodward and needed a break. Why do you choose to ignore that?

How many times has SB ran this year?

How about Zenyatta?

You will find 8 is a pretty solid number of races and also the year starts on Jan 1st, not on Sept 5th.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

So had she raced once in the months of May, June, August, October and November that would make her more eligible in your mind?

[parsixfarms]

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

[knickslions2]

Wow presently 52 votes for each. How I wish they could have raced each other

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

I dont understand how bringing up GZ campaign helps Zenyatta??

Rachels whole year was so much better than Z. Z's one race was great. Z should for sure be the "Breeders Cup HOY" and Rachel should for sure be "actual HOY"

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

She's not obliged to ship East at all. Look at their campaigns...forget the this one dodged this or that. Look at the races themselves. One substantial race for Zen doesn't do enough to overtake Rachel.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

So what other 8-8 horse that raced outside of the box all year long in ultra impressive fashion did Ghostzapper have to go up against on the west coast to solidify his claim as horse HOY?