Noble's Promise: Did Willie Cost him at least a placing? - Page 2

the_fat_man · #21 05-02-2010, 08:38 PM

The quote confirms my original contention: McPeek is a CLOWN. His handling of this horse is like a cobbler being brought in as head mechanic for an Indy team.

MISTERGEE · #22 05-02-2010, 08:42 PM

Clown, possibly, but im guessing one hell of a salesman

Riot · #23 05-02-2010, 08:42 PM

McPeek found Curlin, Einstein, Take Charge Lady. Wasn't NP a 10K find? Some clown.

MISTERGEE · #24 05-02-2010, 08:45 PM

he might be a clown and still be able to find horse talent

#25 05-02-2010, 08:46 PM

There sure are quite a few McPeek haters. From what I've heard it's mostly that he rubs people the wrong way.

Rudeboyelvis · #26 05-02-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Equidaily.com:

Maybe Obama can learn something Kenny McPeek....lol

ddthetide · #27 05-02-2010, 08:48 PM

at the worst willie m. moved abit to soon and MAYBE cost NP a 2nd or 3rd.
if they cut him back to 1m-1 1/16m, keep him on dirt and let wiilie m. on board. NP will be a force to be reckoned with, the rest of the year, with this group of 3y/os.

ateamstupid · #28 05-02-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

He was also moved early at KEE and the BC (which he completely SCREWED up). Is your contention that he can't get 8.5F?

I think that's as far as he'll go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibet2win

In the wrong hands? What a ridiculous thing to say. Lukas is a hall of famer who was leading money winner for like 10 years straight.....AND who do you think trained Todd Pletcher??????

yeah, Lukas has had a ton of TC success in recent years. I know his credentials, it doesn't mean that he's still a good 3-year-old trainer.

Rudeboyelvis · #29 05-02-2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

McPeek found Curlin, Einstein, Take Charge Lady. Wasn't NP a 10K find? Some clown.

Pretty sure this is nowhere near correct.

Riot · #30 05-02-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Pretty sure this is nowhere near correct.

How so?

Edit: the details, for elvis:

Einstein was imported by (and trained by) McPeek.
Curlin was a $57,000 purchase by McPeek for Midnight Cry.
Take Charge Lady was purchased for $157,000 by McPeek.
Noble's Promise was a $10,000 purchase by McPeek.

It's exactly correct.

Rudeboyelvis · #31 05-02-2010, 09:10 PM

Because I was (in partnership) actively perusing him as a 2 year old. Kenny is a great guy and one of the greatest horsemen I've had the privileged to consider a friend, but am absolutely sure would be the first to admit that there were a few of us with him in mind....
glad he had to opportunity to be involved, and again an amazing horseman - not kissin asz, I just really respect the guy

Rudeboyelvis · #32 05-02-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Because I was (in partnership) actively perusing him as a 2 year old. Kenny is a great guy and one of the greatest horsemen I've had the privileged to consider a friend, but am absolutely sure would be the first to admit that there were a few of us with him in mind....
glad he had to opportunity to be involved, and again an amazing horseman - not kissin asz, I just really respect the guy

Talking about Curlin specifically^^^^

Riot · #33 05-02-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Talking about Curlin specifically^^^^

Ah, I wondered. Thanks.

philcski · #34 05-02-2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

You're describing exactly what he did wrong. He ran early into that fast pace (the only horse to do so), then he ran early again, to basically pass 2 horses that would've quit anyway. Then, he still has enough to engage the winner just enough to collapse the rest of the race and allow the plugs to come from the rear. All he has to do is sit chilly, let the rest of the horses catch up to him and then ask his horse. He's at least 2nd with this type of trip.

Look, the dude isn't much of a jock and I'm describing an advanced move. It just pains me to see this horse repeatedly ridden wrong and, as a result, typecast as a hanger or distance challenged.

He's significantly distance challenged- which is no surprise, as he's bred to be a crack sprinter. The fact that he's already outrun his pedigree by performing as well as he has at 8.5F (again, I'll repeat that he's Cuvee's ONLY stakes winner going farther than 7F) speaks to what a game animal he is. I said I thought that he would run well for a mile before stopping before the race and that's exactly what he did. No matter what the jock did, he wasn't going to get 10F. McPeek has now come to that reality and is cutting back, and he'll be a force.

ateamstupid · #35 05-02-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

He's significantly distance challenged- which is no surprise, as he's bred to be a crack sprinter. The fact that he's already outrun his pedigree by performing as well as he has at 8.5F (again, I'll repeat that he's Cuvee's ONLY stakes winner going farther than 7F) speaks to what a game animal he is. I said I thought that he would run well for a mile before stopping before the race and that's exactly what he did. No matter what the jock did, he wasn't going to get 10F. McPeek has now come to that reality and is cutting back, and he'll be a force.

Trophy.

the_fat_man · #36 05-02-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

He's significantly distance challenged- which is no surprise, as he's bred to be a crack sprinter. The fact that he's already outrun his pedigree by performing as well as he has at 8.5F (again, I'll repeat that he's Cuvee's ONLY stakes winner going farther than 7F) speaks to what a game animal he is. I said I thought that he would run well for a mile before stopping before the race and that's exactly what he did. No matter what the jock did, he wasn't going to get 10F. McPeek has now come to that reality and is cutting back, and he'll be a force.

Listen. The jock did not ride the horse the way McPeek apparently wanted him to be ridden. Moreover, this jock has cost the connections a number of wins; PRIMARILY the BC (and at least a 2nd in the Derby). There's no way, PHIL, that you can tell me that he didn't move prematurely in the BC. How can these people be in the game and be clueless to the fact that this jock cost them the BC? It's clear to anyone with a low level tripping ability and these people don't get it? It's pitiful.

Whether the horse is distance challenged or not is a different issue. Whether the horse is seriously good is a different issue. A seriously good horse would've been hard pressed to win with the trip this horse got yesterday. Give the horse the proper ride and if he continues to give it up late, then, concede that he's distance challenged or a plug. Continue to move the horse prematurely and the argument can't be made.

You can't have this horse doing all the running in just about every race it's run and then be critical of the results. No horse, even the best ones, can continually win under these type of conditions.

VOL JACK · #37 05-02-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

The quote confirms my original contention: McPeek is a CLOWN. His handling of this horse is like a cobbler being brought in as head mechanic for an Indy team.

This is the same trainer that considers the immortal Kent Dedumbeaux to be the best Jock in the game.
Kent D== A rider
Willie M=== B rider

What a tandom.

philcski · #38 05-02-2010, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Listen. The jock did not ride the horse the way McPeek apparently wanted him to be ridden. Moreover, this jock has cost the connections a number of wins; PRIMARILY the BC (and at least a 2nd in the Derby). There's no way, PHIL, that you can tell me that he didn't move prematurely in the BC. How can these people be in the game and be clueless to the fact that this jock cost them the BC? It's clear to anyone with a low level tripping ability and these people don't get it? It's pitiful.

Whether the horse is distance challenged or not is a different issue. Whether the horse is seriously good is a different issue. A seriously good horse would've been hard pressed to win with the trip this horse got yesterday. Give the horse the proper ride and if he continues to give it up late, then, concede that he's distance challenged or a plug. Continue to move the horse prematurely and the argument can't be made.

You can't have this horse doing all the running in just about every race it's run and then be critical of the results. No horse, even the best ones, can continually win under these type of conditions.

I don't disagree that moving early, on the Santa Anita strip which has a strong favoritism for patience a la turf, POSSIBLY cost Noble's Promise the BC Juvenile at EIGHT AND A HALF FURLONGS. Which, again, is his maximum distance possible- especially given that he was an early developer and getting the route is a little easier for a sprinter type in their 2yo year.

The horse wasn't good enough at a mile and a quarter, plain and simple. No shame in that, he wasn't built for that trip. The trip he got wasn't materially different from that of the winner, they both moved at the same time from 3rd and 4th, and the winner beat him by six lengths over the last quarter mile. He staggered home the last quarter and got swallowed up by the closers... who encountered trip trouble or they might have run him down even earlier. Paddy and Ice Box both got stopped in the stretch.

dalakhani · #39 05-02-2010, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I don't disagree that moving early, on the Santa Anita strip which has a strong favoritism for patience a la turf, POSSIBLY cost Noble's Promise the BC Juvenile at EIGHT AND A HALF FURLONGS. Which, again, is his maximum distance possible- especially given that he was an early developer and getting the route is a little easier for a sprinter type in their 2yo year.

The horse wasn't good enough at a mile and a quarter, plain and simple. No shame in that, he wasn't built for that trip. The trip he got wasn't materially different from that of the winner, they both moved at the same time from 3rd and 4th, and the winner beat him by six lengths over the last quarter mile. He staggered home the last quarter and got swallowed up by the closers... who encountered trip trouble or they might have run him down even earlier. Paddy and Ice Box both got stopped in the stretch.

Phil-

Is it fair to say that moving early changed the dynamics of the race to his detriment and to the benefit of the winner?

dalakhani · #40 05-02-2010, 10:25 PM

Let me clarify what I mean by that last post. If he waits, lets say he drafts behind the speed for another 1/16th of a mile until the top of the stretch, he can wait for the rail to open up as the speed holds on a little longer. Does the winner have to wait then or go wide? Does he get into traffic problems and possibly get into a mucky situation with paddy oprado and the rest of the oncoming stampede all of the while giving Nobles promise a clear run on a track he clearly relished?

I don't think he beats ice box either way. My point is that the race would have most likely changed.