Dumdolphin up to their old tricks again

[RolloTomasi]

Godolphin has about 5 horses that ought to point to the Mile. Gayego, Regal Ransom, Desert Party, Giralomo and perhaps even Vineyard Haven.

Whoever they decide to put in the Classic and Sprint at the last minute will probably be automatic tosses.

Of course, if you're really optimistic, perhaps Vale Of York, Atomic Rain, and West Side Bernie will take the pressure off in finding a Classic hopeful.

[slotdirt]

When was the last time West Side Bernie even ran? Has he run since Derby '09?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

When was the last time West Side Bernie even ran? Has he run since Derby '09?

He was demolished in a 7f race in Dubai over the winter. The winner was ex-American sprinter Barbecue Eddie.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Godolphin has about 5 horses that ought to point to the Mile. Gayego, Regal Ransom, Desert Party, Giralomo and perhaps even Vineyard Haven.

Whoever they decide to put in the Classic and Sprint at the last minute will probably be automatic tosses.

Of course, if you're really optimistic, perhaps Vale Of York, Atomic Rain, and West Side Bernie will take the pressure off in finding a Classic hopeful.

I think Giralomo is totally legit Classic horse if he improves off of last year. Regal Ransom might be a cut below the top horses but he is usefull enough going long, I think the pace might get 2 hot for him in a mile race.... Gayego IMO SUCKS. Desert Party is all the sudden one of the top sprinters around, IMO,

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I think Giralomo is totally legit Classic horse if he improves off of last year. Regal Ransom might be a cut below the top horses but he is usefull enough going long, I think the pace might get 2 hot for him in a mile race.... Gayego IMO SUCKS. Desert Party is all the sudden one of the top sprinters around, IMO,

Giralomo is definitely bred to stay 10f, but he was a rush job last year, and he'll be a rush job this year, too.

Though she was highly successful last year, I think their campaign with Music Note was all over the place. She ran like a short horse in the Phipps, so they panic and cut her back in distance, she crushes the Ballerina, and so they step her back up in trip instead of perhaps targeting the FM sprinter Eclipse (cuz they had little shot at Zenyatta's title). Sounds foolish to criticize given Music Note's two Grade 1 scores, but I think those victories might have been in spite of Godolphin's efforts.

I can totally see Giralomo going through the same sort of ringer and coming up goose eggs. Not really sure what he's targeting anyways. He's being given a tall order if he's supposed to show up in the Woodward and JCGC off the bench. Hopefully there's an allowance race in there somewhere.

I think there's a world of difference between a 7f race and a 6f race, so I won't put Desert Party in the top sprint group as far as the BC is concerned. A campaign like Kodiak Kowboy or Bribon last year could get him an Eclipse, however.

[Indian Charlie]

Vineyard Heaven, if sound and healthy (never a given with these guys), would absolutely destroy Desert Party in a 6-7 furlong race. It would be like PG1985 going up against DrugS in a 2 month handicapping contest.

[my miss storm cat]

I will NOT get into another Godolphin fight.
I will NOT get into another Godolphin fight.
I will NOT...

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I will NOT get into another Godolphin fight.
I will NOT get into another Godolphin fight.
I will NOT...

Have you tried your hand in the Z/RA/QR fight?

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Have you tried your hand in the Z/RA/QR fight?

Nah haven't done that one.

You know I'm Italian... I need to get really fired up in order to have a good fight.

There's no passion involved when I truly like all 3.

I'm in limbo, Charlie. Hell I'm not even gonna start a PVal fight.

Maybe something else will come up, huh?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Vineyard Heaven, if sound and healthy (never a given with these guys), would absolutely destroy Desert Party in a 6-7 furlong race. It would be like PG1985 going up against DrugS in a 2 month handicapping contest.

I would defeat Drugs, I am very confident of this.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Just read they are aiming Desert Party for all one turn races the rest of the year, with the Forego the next big target, followed by the BC dirt mile.

Do they seriously believe this horse is a sprinter?????????

Why wouldn't he be a sprinter?

He's made six starts going 7F and under and he's won five of them..

Considering many of their past decisions... It's a stroke of genius for Godolphin to realize that he is a sprinter..

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I would defeat Drugs, I am very confident of this.

You are probably right.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Why wouldn't he be a sprinter?

He's made six starts going 7F and under and he's won five of them..

Considering many of their past decisions... It's a stroke of genius for Godolphin to realize that he is a sprinter..

I'm not really sure what makes people think he's a sprinter, other than pretty circumstantial PPs.

Of those six starts going 7 or less, three were as a two year old, after he sold for 2+ million at a 2yo in training sale. None of those three starts were particularly great, though indeed one or two of those were pretty nice. Notice the company he kept in that third start? VH, Cribnote and Munnings? Those are all three quality sprinters, and DP wanted NOTHING to do with that field. Yeah, he did have some trouble, but he was pretty close early and got outrun pretty badly late.

Next up, he makes an early 3yo debut in the desert and wins going 7f, by 1/2 a length over Regal Ransom.

Three weeks later, he makes his next start going 1m, in what is very obviously his best performance. Again facing their apparent star router from the group, Regal Ransom, DP wins by nearly five.

Six weeks later, in what is clearly his second best performance, he goes 9 in their big 3yo race, and loses by about half a length to Regal Ransom. 15 lengths back to third.

Up to this point, it could not be any clearer that this is not a 6f horse.

The wheels fall off in the Derby, but if I recall correctly, he did suffer an injury and was not seen again until this year. He won some crappy 6f race where he overmatched his field, then ran up the track going a mile. He trailed, or close to it, throughout the entire race, which signifies to me that the distance had nothing to do with it. He just didn't run that day, or had something go amiss (besides having bad connections).

The Philly race? Who cares. That field was ugly.

Next you have his breeding. Sired by a World Cup winner that also sired the greatest staying mare in history, I see little indication in his sires side that would make me think he's a sprinter.

His damsire won the Preakness and the Belmont. Granted, the females in his family were awful, but that would indicate more of a soundness difficulty than a distance problem.

It seems pretty obvious to me, also, when you watch him run, that he's not a sprinter.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Notice the company he kept in that third start? VH, Cribnote and Munnings? Those are all three quality sprinters, and DP wanted NOTHING to do with that field. Yeah, he did have some trouble, but he was pretty close early and got outrun pretty badly late.

That's not completely fair.

Desert Party crushed Vineyard Haven one start earlier in the Sanford. As for his Hopeful debacle, he came out of it with an injury, which is why he made no further starts as a 2yo.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

That's not completely fair.

Desert Party crushed Vineyard Haven one start earlier in the Sanford. As for his Hopeful debacle, he came out of it with an injury, which is why he made no further starts as a 2yo.

True enough.

However, VH steadied at the 1/2 mile pole, making his second career start, which is why I discounted that race.

And yeah, he does seem to be injury prone.

Maybe another reason to not sprint him.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I'm not really sure what makes people think he's a sprinter, other than pretty circumstantial PPs.

Of those six starts going 7 or less, three were as a two year old, after he sold for 2+ million at a 2yo in training sale. None of those three starts were particularly great, though indeed one or two of those were pretty nice. Notice the company he kept in that third start? VH, Cribnote and Munnings? Those are all three quality sprinters, and DP wanted NOTHING to do with that field. Yeah, he did have some trouble, but he was pretty close early and got outrun pretty badly late.

Next up, he makes an early 3yo debut in the desert and wins going 7f, by 1/2 a length over Regal Ransom.

Three weeks later, he makes his next start going 1m, in what is very obviously his best performance. Again facing their apparent star router from the group, Regal Ransom, DP wins by nearly five.

Six weeks later, in what is clearly his second best performance, he goes 9 in their big 3yo race, and loses by about half a length to Regal Ransom. 15 lengths back to third.

Up to this point, it could not be any clearer that this is not a 6f horse.

The wheels fall off in the Derby, but if I recall correctly, he did suffer an injury and was not seen again until this year. He won some crappy 6f race where he overmatched his field, then ran up the track going a mile. He trailed, or close to it, throughout the entire race, which signifies to me that the distance had nothing to do with it. He just didn't run that day, or had something go amiss (besides having bad connections).

The Philly race? Who cares. That field was ugly.

Next you have his breeding. Sired by a World Cup winner that also sired the greatest staying mare in history, I see little indication in his sires side that would make me think he's a sprinter.

His damsire won the Preakness and the Belmont. Granted, the females in his family were awful, but that would indicate more of a soundness difficulty than a distance problem.

It seems pretty obvious to me, also, when you watch him run, that he's not a sprinter.

I don't agree that it's so cut and dry easy to see that he is not a sprinter.. but we shall see, his next start should give a clearer indication.

Street Cry himself ran fairly well while sprinting as a 2yr old.. just missed the Del Mar Futurity..

You have to dig deep into the damside, but there's some relation to multiple graded sprint winner Good And Tough..

[Indian Charlie]

Well, I'm not entirely saying that he cannot sprint. I just don't think he can be a top level sprinter, while I do believe it's possible he can do much better going longer.

I just see him as having much more upside going 8-9f.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

When was the last time West Side Bernie even ran? Has he run since Derby '09?

Was just looking at the Holy Bull chart from '09 because there's a horse in for $5k on Friday at MTH that went off favored, and the winner was in for $30 last week. What an incredibly key negative race.

SARATOGA SINNER: Injured, off, lost 8 races before winning a $30k N3L at CD last week
BEAR'S ROCKET: Has been dreadful in 5 losses including a 50 length drubbing in the A Little Warm race yesterday
WEST SIDE BERNIE: Ran ok in the Wood Memorial but otherwise has been clobbered
BEETHOVEN: 3rd in the FoY, has not run since
STATELY CHARACTER: has run 14 times since without hitting the board, with typical comments being "No Factor" "Outrun" "Trailed Throughout"
BRUCE N AUTUMN: Switched to turf thereafter, didn't matter; has lost 6 in a row without hitting the board
DANGER TO SOCIETY: Went off favored, has run 5 times since and has not hit the board despite being 7/5 or lower 3 times; most recently was in a $15k N3L at Philly, goes for $5k on Friday at MTH
ROCKLAND: Finished 2nd for $25k N2L a couple weeks ago at DEL as the favorite, was crushed in his other 5 starts
EL CRESPO: Switched to turf thereafter, won Palm Beach next out; been serviceable but erratic in 12 starts since with no wins
IDOL MAKER: Ran once since in an allowance at BEL, finished last at 5-1

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Well, I'm not entirely saying that he cannot sprint. I just don't think he can be a top level sprinter, while I do believe it's possible he can do much better going longer.

I just see him as having much more upside going 8-9f.

Then it's a good thing his year-end goal is the Dirt Mile. All of this is about them using a 7f race as a prep? The article also said they're going to use the Kelso, which apparently has been moved to dirt, as the final prep.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

Was just looking at the Holy Bull chart from '09 because there's a horse in for $5k on Friday at MTH that went off favored, and the winner was in for $30 last week. What an incredibly key negative race.

SARATOGA SINNER: Injured, off, lost 8 races before winning a $30k N3L at CD last week
BEAR'S ROCKET: Has been dreadful in 5 losses including a 50 length drubbing in the A Little Warm race yesterday
WEST SIDE BERNIE: Ran ok in the Wood Memorial but otherwise has been clobbered
BEETHOVEN: 3rd in the FoY, has not run since
STATELY CHARACTER: has run 14 times since without hitting the board, with typical comments being "No Factor" "Outrun" "Trailed Throughout"
BRUCE N AUTUMN: Switched to turf thereafter, didn't matter; has lost 6 in a row without hitting the board
DANGER TO SOCIETY: Went off favored, has run 5 times since and has not hit the board despite being 7/5 or lower 3 times; most recently was in a $15k N3L at Philly, goes for $5k on Friday at MTH
ROCKLAND: Finished 2nd for $25k N2L a couple weeks ago at DEL as the favorite, was crushed in his other 5 starts
EL CRESPO: Switched to turf thereafter, won Palm Beach next out; been serviceable but erratic in 12 starts since with no wins
IDOL MAKER: Ran once since in an allowance at BEL, finished last at 5-1

Amazing.

Not surprising the first couple didn't run back considering the way the track was playing that day but it's pretty amazing that basically everyone fell off the face of the earth after that race.

El Crespo has to be the idol of all the others. Relatively speaking he's a champ.