Lawyer Ron returns in St. Louis Derby

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Langfurh is no world beater and by no means an established sire of sires....sorry, but bloodstock agents won't like his second-hand blood until he proves something
.....

Langfuhr's oldest foals are now 7; supposing a son from that first crop went into service at age 4, his oldest foals would now be 2. Not much of a chance to be established as a 'sire of sires' yet. Anyway, people usually emphasize that aspect when the horse they are offering has limited performance credentials, which is not a problem for Ronny. Langfuhr won the Met Mile, Carter H, Forego H, and Vosburgh S; he was bred in Canada and most of his earlier foals were Canadian-bred or based. He also has shuttled, so has some SWs Down Under that nobody ever heard of.

Langfuhr has sired 2 champions: Wando (Horse of the Year in Canada, Triple Crown winner), Mobil (champion older horse in Canada), and numerous SWs including Imperial Gesture (Beldame S-G1), Imperialism (3x G2 winner, 3rd Kentucky Derby), Black Tom (Perth Cup-G2,Aus), Frightening (G2 in Australia), Jambalaya (G2), etc. He's not Storm Cat or Mr. P or Danzig (his dad), but most stallions aren't; yet many such have had good racing sons who make good sires, like Ack Ack (his best son Youth failed at stud, but Broad Brush carries on) or Damascus (no major sire sons, but several decent ones).

And LR does it again. Winning the St Louis derby in his first race back from the chip. Quite impressive when a horse who has a chip taken out can return first crack out of the box and win a 250 grand race, no matter where a 250 grand race is run, they don't give those away.

[Pedigree Ann]

An Addendum - Lawyer Ron is the sort of stallion who going to be desparately needed in Kentucky very soon. He has one cross of Northern Dancer but NO Raise a Native (so no Mr. P) or Storm Cat or Seattle Slew or any of the really fashionable bloodlines. Outcrossing is going to be vital and Ron can provide that.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

An Addendum - Lawyer Ron is the sort of stallion who going to be desparately needed in Kentucky very soon. He has one cross of Northern Dancer but NO Raise a Native (so no Mr. P) or Storm Cat or Seattle Slew or any of the really fashionable bloodlines. Outcrossing is going to be vital and Ron can provide that.

Ann I think thats obvious. WIth so many Storm cats out there as well as Slews, etc. At some point outcross stallions are going to be vital.
You would be surprised how sought after Offlee Wild was when lansdon sold is breeding rights, one of the main reasons cited was that he was an outcross and that they were going to be in demand in the very near future.

[GenuineRisk]

I'm so happy he's back-- I loved him this spring. Does anyone know if the video of the race is available anywhere? I didn't see it listed on NTRA.com.

[irishtrekker]

I looked everywhere, but no luck.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Langfuhr's oldest foals are now 7; supposing a son from that first crop went into service at age 4, his oldest foals would now be 2. Not much of a chance to be established as a 'sire of sires' yet. Anyway, people usually emphasize that aspect when the horse they are offering has limited performance credentials, which is not a problem for Ronny. Langfuhr won the Met Mile, Carter H, Forego H, and Vosburgh S; he was bred in Canada and most of his earlier foals were Canadian-bred or based. He also has shuttled, so has some SWs Down Under that nobody ever heard of.

Langfuhr has sired 2 champions: Wando (Horse of the Year in Canada, Triple Crown winner), Mobil (champion older horse in Canada), and numerous SWs including Imperial Gesture (Beldame S-G1), Imperialism (3x G2 winner, 3rd Kentucky Derby), Black Tom (Perth Cup-G2,Aus), Frightening (G2 in Australia), Jambalaya (G2), etc. He's not Storm Cat or Mr. P or Danzig (his dad), but most stallions aren't; yet many such have had good racing sons who make good sires, like Ack Ack (his best son Youth failed at stud, but Broad Brush carries on) or Damascus (no major sire sons, but several decent ones).

I'm telling you, Pedigree Anne, he is not the most attractive stallion prosepct due to his size and Langfurh does hurt him alot...the Danzig sire line is not a very productive line anyway...sure, there is Danehill, etc. - but Danzig has actually been considered as a disappointing sire of sires...he is FAR better on the broodmare side...

I'm just stating what the industry experts opinions are....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I'm telling you, Pedigree Anne, he is not the most attractive stallion prosepct due to his size and Langfurh does hurt him alot...the Danzig sire line is not a very productive line anyway...sure, there is Danehill, etc. - but Danzig has actually been considered as a disappointing sire of sires...he is FAR better on the broodmare side...

I'm just stating what the industry experts opinions are....

lol
danzig a disappointment?! good lord man what are you drinking?? danehill ALONE would grant any sire a title as sire of sires. i can't believe you would dismiss that horse so readily. danehill over 200 stakes winners, danzig with 192 last time i looked. yeah, unproductive as hell. danehill led the sire list 9 times.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

lol
danzig a disappointment?! good lord man what are you drinking?? danehill ALONE would grant any sire a title as sire of sires. i can't believe you would dismiss that horse so readily. danehill over 200 stakes winners, danzig with 192 last time i looked. yeah, unproductive as hell. danehill led the sire list 9 times.

Obviously i can tell your bias by your screen name....say what you will, but I'm telling you that his paternal line is very cold in the eyes of bloodstock agents, much like Kris S. is, etc.....it is an undeniable fact.....of course there are exceptions in any thing, especially with all of the sires he has floating around out there. But I'm just saying that with all of the stallions he has and all of the nice mares he's bred over the past 20+ years before passing that he is known for being a racehorse sire and a pretty solid influence on the dam side....with all of the great runners hes had i would consider their success (or lack there of) as a relative failure - again, much like Kris S. sireline, etc....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Obviously i can tell your bias by your screen name....say what you will, but I'm telling you that his paternal line is very cold in the eyes of bloodstock agents, much like Kris S. is, etc.....it is an undeniable fact.....of course there are exceptions in any thing, especially with all of the sires he has floating around out there. But I'm just saying that with all of the stallions he has and all of the nice mares he's bred over the past 20+ years before passing that he is known for being a racehorse sire and a pretty solid influence on the dam side....with all of the great runners hes had i would consider their success (or lack there of) as a relative failure - again, much like Kris S. sireline, etc....

It would be nice just once if you gave us some original thought rather than constantly referring to these mystery "industry experts".

Originally Posted by oracle80

It would be nice just once if you gave us some original thought rather than constantly referring to these mystery "industry experts".

I just think of Joel as a wannabe blueblood. For the most part, his opinions and inside info are pure comedy gold.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I just think of Joel as a wannabe blueblood. For the most part, his opinions and inside info are pure comedy gold.

I don't make personal attacks like you low-lifes...i give my opinion on HORSES - what a concept on a horse racing chatboard, huh?

...if you don't like it then don't read it, OR even better - give me a good debate why you don't agree with what i say...But simply leaving criticizing personal comments only makes you both look stupid.....debate with me if you want, or just ignor me, but when you get personal it tells alot about the type of person you guys really are....

[Danzig]

hell yeah i'm biased. lol

with war chant, belong to me, boundary, langfuhr, the legend known as danehill, i'll withhold judgement on his lasting legacy....i just think the word disappointment has NO place next to danzig. top stakes sire ever in north america...and he's spent too much time on too many lists to ever be considered that. but how can a horse who sired a nine time leading sire not be a sire of sires???? that's ludicrous.

it wasn't too long ago that i read that storm cat hadn't proven himself a sire of sires. that's not being said anymore.


and yes, kris s was outstanding as a sire, but hasn't had much luck in becoming a sire of sires....but to compare him to danzig is laughable. and danzig has produced both dirt and turf stars, sprinters to stayers...

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I don't make personal attacks like you low-lifes...i give my opinion on HORSES - what a concept on a horse racing chatboard, huh?

...if you don't like it then don't read it, OR even better - give me a good debate why you don't agree with what i say...But simply leaving criticizing personal comments only makes you both look stupid.....debate with me if you want, or just ignor me, but when you get personal it tells alot about the type of person you guys really are....

What would you say your biggest accomplishment within the racing game has been Joel?

[Danzig]

'I don't make personal attacks like you low-lifes'

er..........

All out to beat Smokeyjonessutton?

Well ... at least he's healthy again ... and a win is a win. Does Fairmount have any more stakes races carded for him?

Onward and upward.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I don't make personal attacks like you low-lifes...i give my opinion on HORSES - what a concept on a horse racing chatboard, huh?

...if you don't like it then don't read it, OR even better - give me a good debate why you don't agree with what i say...But simply leaving criticizing personal comments only makes you both look stupid.....debate with me if you want, or just ignor me, but when you get personal it tells alot about the type of person you guys really are....

Ok i'll "ignor" you. You're too smart for me, gaybo.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Ok i'll "ignor" you. You're too smart for me, gaybo.

Hes a liar who makes up things that people never said. Find the post where I supposedly said what this liar has made up.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Hes a liar who makes up things that people never said. Find the post where I supposedly said what this liar has made up.

Yeah I know what he is. I've got a new title for him...

Cunningham Racing - Gay for Godolphin

Originally Posted by Danzig188

hell yeah i'm biased. lol

with war chant, belong to me, boundary, langfuhr, the legend known as danehill, i'll withhold judgement on his lasting legacy....i just think the word disappointment has NO place next to danzig. top stakes sire ever in north america...and he's spent too much time on too many lists to ever be considered that. but how can a horse who sired a nine time leading sire not be a sire of sires???? that's ludicrous.

it wasn't too long ago that i read that storm cat hadn't proven himself a sire of sires. that's not being said anymore.


and yes, kris s was outstanding as a sire, but hasn't had much luck in becoming a sire of sires....but to compare him to danzig is laughable. and danzig has produced both dirt and turf stars, sprinters to stayers...

that is your opinion and you're entitled to it...success is measured in the eye of the beholder....I think War Chant, Belong to Me and Boundary were all disappointing at stud relative to the mare books they recieved and how well they performed on the racetrack......just my opinion...look at War Chant....beuatifully bred and was a serious runner that had every chance to get a few stellar first crops with the book of mares he got, yet he relatively has had nothing special in my eyes...Also, look at the beautifully bred Dayjur, who was a freak of a racehorse and couldn't sire a $30K claimer.....you see where I'm going with this...it is just my opinion, man....