Kip Deville to IEAH

Originally Posted by monipenny

Boldruler in regards to times of workouts I have to agree with Oracle strongly on this one. Its not the time, it is the manner in which the horse trained and how well he finished- final times do not tell the whole story.

I try to limit myself to 10 posts a day and hate to waste one answering this, but if you read my statement above it says that people at the track told me Showing Up looked better than anyone in the morning works. EC is a proven great horse on the turf but obviously the Jackson's horse took a liking to the surface.

Originally Posted by oracle80

YOU know guys. Its real easy to knock an owner and his or her horses.
Its a game in whihc they lose way more offten than they win.
YOu think I'm rude because I bust on people and their statements sometimes? Well lemme tell you whats really rude.
Really rude is a guy or gal or someone else coming to this board and sharing the fact that they have ownership in a horse and then knocking or bashing their horses, thats whats rude.
Obviously Exceller has a percentage with West Point, Boldruler has friends who are tight with the Jackson's etc. See, I wouldn't and most others wouldn't bash or knock these people or their horses knowing that they are here and posting.
You are out of line guys, way out of line.
IEAh is a group of successful people who have been playing in the horse game quite successfully. They like to buy horses who are alrady proven runners, and even though you often pay more money for these types, its certainly a highe percentage move than paying 500 grand here and there for unproven yearlings.
Now mp3 sounds like a guy who may have invested in this group, or wants to or knows them. I don't know him from a hole in the ground. I haven't heard anyone bashing West point or the Jacksons, what the heck gives you the audacity to insult IEAH?
If someone comes on this site, and has ownership in a stable, you can bet your ass I'm not going to insult them or their horses.
By the way Iavarone is as sharp as any owner out there and has a good crew, especially Sherack.

I can't see where anyone bashed any horse. Sounds more like good competitive chatting. I just said that was a lot of money for a purchase of that horse. Thats my opinion and chats are 90% opinion. I even said it is horse racing and you never know. I must admit I did laugh at the 25K claimer comment, but I think people are joking. MP3 seems to be a smart guy but making the statement that this horse is up there with a BC Classic winner is going to get some comments. Like I said before though, it is horse racing and anything can happen.

"Way out of line" coming from Oracle's mouth. Well I will leave that one alone.

[mp3]

Mp3 did not say KP was up there with a breeders cup winner. He never compared KD to EC. Someone else compared SU to EC. I only made a suggestive comparison between SU and KD based upon turf experience and turf acclomplisments. That is it. I never have questioned the abilities or denegraded any horse mentioned in this conversation. I hope that KD wins even though I couyldn't buy him because I get the feeling that most posters on this board seem to think they have it all figured out

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by mp3

Mp3 did not say KP was up there with a breeders cup winner. He never compared KD to EC. Someone else compared SU to EC. I only made a suggestive comparison between SU and KD based upon turf experience and turf acclomplisments. That is it. I never have questioned the abilities or denegraded any horse mentioned in this conversation. I hope that KD wins even though I couyldn't buy him because I get the feeling that most posters on this board seem to think they have it all figured out

I think he was talking about how you said he could be as good as St. Liam or Silver Train, which I mentioned in my post. We will see in a few weeks.

[mp3]

AHHH got you. Trainer made that comparison, not mp3

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by mp3

AHHH got you. Trainer made that comparison, not mp3

Trainer must have some extra special potion prepared for that horse if he is comparing him to a horse in St. Liams category.

[mp3]

you are clearly a jackass. That is a response that is made by a person that needs to evaluate his own embarrassing pathetic life.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by mp3

you are clearly a jackass. That is a response that is made by a person that needs to evaluate his own embarrassing pathetic life.

You are absolutely clueless if you really believe the trainer said that. That was IEAH sales people pulling your leg. St. Liam was one of the best horses in the last 10 years. Almost in Ghostzappers category. KD has shown nothing to even put him in the top 20 3yr olds in the country.

[mp3]

do you know dutrow? how do you know he didn't say that. didn't he say that Sliver Train was running in the suburban and then change his mind. Check your facts before making affirmative statements. You could end up looking foolish.

[mp3]

when dutrow got st liam was he one of the top 100 horses in the world? what about silver train? what about sis city off the claim. come on whats your point. A good trainer can recognize talent and a good team brings it out of them. Kip Deville is probably more accomplished than all of those horses at the time he recieved them

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by mp3

do you know dutrow? how do you know he didn't say that. didn't he say that Sliver Train was running in the suburban and then change his mind. Check your facts before making affirmative statements. You could end up looking foolish.

I don't know him but I am 100% positive that he doesn't even think let alone say that KD is in the same category as St. Liam. Do you have any idea who St. Liam was? He was a superstar. I hate to tell you this but you are the one looking foolish.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by mp3

when dutrow got st liam was he one of the top 100 horses in the world? what about silver train? what about sis city off the claim. come on whats your point. A good trainer can recognize talent and a good team brings it out of them. Kip Deville is probably more accomplished than all of those horses at the time he recieved them

Saint Liam is a Saint Ballado out of a Quiet American mare. He was Horse of the Year. Kip Deville is an Oklahoma bred out of Kipling and an Encino mare. There is nothing there. Nothing.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Exceller

Saint Liam is a Saint Ballado out of a Quiet American mare. He was Horse of the Year. Kip Deville is an Oklahoma bred out of Kipling and an Encino mare. There is nothing there. Nothing.

Not agreeing or disagreeing here with either of you, but let me just say that to me, bloodlines mean very little. If the horse can run, I don't care who his sire was. JMO.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Not agreeing or disagreeing here with either of you, but let me just say that to me, bloodlines mean very little. If the horse can run, I don't care who his sire was. JMO.

In my opinion bloodlines mean everything when talking about the elite in horse racing. The saying breed the best to the best and hope for the best exists for a reason. Show me a horse of the year from an OK bred. Show me any great horse that came from bad bloodlines.

The fact is that horse has done nothing to date. It is insulting to St. Liam to compare the two.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Exceller

In my opinion bloodlines mean everything when talking about the elite in horse racing. The saying breed the best to the best and hope for the best exists for a reason. Show me a horse of the year from an OK bred. Show me any great horse that came from bad bloodlines.

The fact is that horse has done nothing to date. It is insulting to St. Liam to compare the two.

Like I said, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. Even the great ones started from a humble beginning at some point...

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Like I said, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. Even the great ones started from a humble beginning at some point...

No great horse came from breeding like KD's. He is an average horse with below average breeding. He has done nothing to make anyone think he could ever be Horse of the Year. There is ZERO chance Dutrow said this horse could be his best ever. I know groups like IEAH and they say anything. The business is just full of snake oil salesmen. The fact that this guy called me a jackass is too funny. Anyone that would believe that garbage IEAH fed him is pretty gullible.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Exceller

No great horse came from breeding like KD's. He is an average horse with below average breeding. He has done nothing to make anyone think he could ever be Horse of the Year. There is ZERO chance Dutrow said this horse could be his best ever. I know groups like IEAH and they say anything. The business is just full of snake oil salesmen.

This is my last post on this topic, since you obviously didn't read my previous ones. I don't know what ANYONE said because I wasn't personally there. I do know this... Saint Liam could have been the most perfectly bred horse on the track and not won a thing. There have been PLENTY of cases such as that, but instead, he WON and THAT is what made him a great horse. NOT his bloodlines. As for Kip, I won't judge him until I see him race some good races.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

This is my last post on this topic, since you obviously didn't read my previous ones. I don't know what ANYONE said because I wasn't personally there. I do know this... Saint Liam could have been the most perfectly bred horse on the track and not won a thing. There have been PLENTY of cases such as that, but instead, he WON and THAT is what made him a great horse. NOT his bloodlines. As for Kip, I won't judge him until I see him race some good races.

You made my point. Nobody would judge him until he does something. Putting him in the category with St. Liam is something nobody would do off his average race career and average breeding.

Originally Posted by Exceller

No great horse came from breeding like KD's. He is an average horse with below average breeding. He has done nothing to make anyone think he could ever be Horse of the Year. There is ZERO chance Dutrow said this horse could be his best ever. I know groups like IEAH and they say anything. The business is just full of snake oil salesmen. The fact that this guy called me a jackass is too funny. Anyone that would believe that garbage IEAH fed him is pretty gullible.

Oh yeah? Ever hear of a son of Ole Bob Bowers named John Henry.
And watch who you call snake oil salesman, Iavarone puts up a lot of his OWN cash, not just investors money. Its easy to buy horses with investors money, takes brass balls to kick up your own.
But yeah, comparisons to St Liam are a "tad" premature, LOL! haveto know Dutrow and how he says things. Hes probably very high on the horse.

Originally Posted by Exceller

You made my point. Nobody would judge him until he does something. Putting him in the category with St. Liam is something nobody would do off his average race career and average breeding.

Performance makes racehorses, not breeding. But your other point is completely valid about having to do something before he is compared to anyone, lol.
Question about breeding. I saw a lot syndicates and ownesr spend a lot of cash last year on expensive horses with "great pedigrees". IEAH and partners bought a "lowly" daughter of Real Quiet out of a WIld Zone mare who has won a grade 2, placed in 2 other grade 2's, and was 4th in the Oaks.
How do you explain this if pedigree is such a determinant factor.
P.S. They are already "out" on the purchase and andything else she does on the track is gravy, to go along with the broodmare value that a grade two winner has. Looks like "the snakeoil" salesman did a lot of good by himself and his people with that one.