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#21
06-06-2006, 07:05 PM
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One of his (Phipps) was a beauty named Storm Flag Flying. Gosh, I loved her. DTS 
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#22
06-06-2006, 07:27 PM
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i always cheer for phipps horses, black silks, cherry red cap. also any in the yellow of claiborne farm.
storm flag flying was a beauty on the track, very tenacious. hopefully she'll pass on those outstanding genes she inherited from her dam and grand-dam. SFF's win in the bc filly race was incredible. not something you get to see and enjoy every day.
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#23
06-06-2006, 07:31 PM
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#24
06-06-2006, 10:24 PM
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I never all of the accomplishments Lukas has. However, I do have a problem with all of the horse he ran into the ground over his career. He is great with 2 and 3 year olds, but I think we can all agree his older horse training pales in comparison. My theory for this goes back to how hard he runs his youngest horses into the ground. He also had every great horse he set his eyes bought and put into his barn for him.
It is possible to look at his career and show respect for all his accomplishments and yet at the same time hate the way he treated many horses. Of course maybe some of this has to do with his owners. If they want to see their horses great at 2 and 3 and don't care about their health or their careers past the age of 3 then Lukas had no choice.
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#25
06-06-2006, 10:51 PM
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Just thought I would throw this in. Been reading this thread. I thought the job he did with Spain was incredible. Just my opinion.
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#26
06-06-2006, 11:13 PM
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This is my opinion. I have worked with horses all of my life, and those of you who have not worked with them don't understand how incredibly hard it is to do what trainers like Todd Pletcher, Bob Baffert, Bobby Frankel, Nick Zito, Steve Asmussen, and D. Wayne Luckas (just to name a few) have done. To train that many champions is incredible, and I am not so quick to judge trainers or jockeys anymore because I know first-hand what can go wrong with a horse. Horses are such fragile creatures, and what is worse is they can't tell you when something may be hurting them a little bit. For example, in reality (and don't attack me for this), Barbaro COULD HAVE HAD some sort of an injury before they ever put him in the starting gate that went undetected because some injuries are so hard to find. It is a gamble, and EVERYONE involved with horses usually makes a few huge mistakes in their career just because this is a sport where it is so easy to make mistakes, and it is a sport in which anything can go wrong. Unfortunately, some of those mistakes turn into fatalities or retirements. That is the sport of horse racing...the sport of kings. It is not for the faint-hearted. As for D. Wayne Lukas, he may have over-stepped his boundaries more than normal in the past few years. I must admit that the stunt he pulled with Going Wild last year infuriated me to no end. D. Wayne Luckas may be in a slump, and he may have made some bad desicions in the past few years, but EVERY trainer will go through this sometime in their career. In fact, who am I to judge someone who has given so much to the sport, and who has produced champion after champion after champion? One thing is for sure, I will never forget that terrific run for the Triple Crown that he gave us with Charismatic back in 1999.
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#27
06-07-2006, 12:08 AM
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I respect you and anyone that has ever worked with horses. I would never try to say I knew 1% of what people who have worked with them know. However, with D.Wayne, I have to stick to my guns. He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen and don't tell me it is because of the volume of horses he ran. Asmussen, Pletcher and others have just as many horses and 1/10th of the amount of horses breaking down as D.Wayne has over the years. Also, the other great trainers that have been mentioned all have great records with older and younger horses. D.Wayne's horses and stats fall apart once he burns the horses up at 2 and 3. Yes, he's had many champions, but bought every horse at every sale that looked like they might have an ounce of talent. How about some of the little trainers out there that never have any talent in their barns that still manage to produce a champion. These are the guys who should be talked about. Also, look at all the great trainers that came out of D.Wayne's stable. I know this is a plus for Lukas as a teacher, but also a minus as to did all the work making some of those past champions.
Also as to Charismatic, remember again, Lukas had him in Maiden Claimer. He had given up on the horse before he ran. How many other great horses might have Lukas have had in his barn if hadn't given up on them right away like he did time and time again?
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#28
06-07-2006, 01:33 AM
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When Asmussen and Pletcher hit 70 years old, maybe you can tally up all the breakdowns they have had and then make this statement.
Unless you have numbers to prove it, this statement isn't necessarily true. Do you know how many horses Asmussen has had break down? Pletcher? What about all the 2 year olds that snapped a leg before they ever race? 1/10th of D. Wayne's breakdowns? "He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen" I feel like the above statement is an unqualified one.
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#30
06-07-2006, 02:21 AM
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now you wanna come at me personally mike(oracle)? you really dont wanna go that route when it comes to "morals". i dont care whether luka$$ wins or loses a 100 races in row the guys still a pr ick at the end of the day. hmmmmmm nobody had no comment bout him being a self cenetered a$ shole and talking the owners into running TCAS in the derby.........gee i wonder why. you also mentioned jordan whos arguably the most successful and greatest athlete ever and played in the city i hailed from. i loved watchin the guy on the court as much as any1 but hes also a cheat off the court amongst other things. just because you got prior success and money doesnt make you a saint as a person.......lol were some of you part of the jury during the oj trial?
hey debbie you really think antley ditched his wife and his unborn? cmon, you get blinded that easily? chris was murdered and the guy you got the hots for gary stevens pretty much believes the same thing amongst other people. allen jerkins is still getting the job done, we had a trainer in a wheelchair saddle a horse in the derby this year and you people wanna use age as a excuse for his decline in his particular profession? of course d wayne dont care how good or bad he does, its not his millions getting flushed down the toilet. luka$$' comments after "jockey" appeared on hbo just restated how much of a pri ck he is in saying he wouldnt feel sorry for shane sellers or any other jockey who drives 2 mercedes. well without those jocks d wayne dont feel sorry for he wins zero races and doesnt achieve the money and fame he did. you guys can talk 2 me till your blue in your collective faces about him, hes still a a$$hole
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#31
06-07-2006, 05:12 AM
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Hey guys, It's me richi42. I got tired of that name so I changed it.
Anyway, I totally agree with Playa. We have these debates about Lukas every few months. I know what he's accomplished but there are reasons for it. Last time we discussed this, Landson totally agreed with me that much of Lukas' success in the 1980s had to do with him being several years ahead of the other trainers in terms of pharmocolgy. He was practically the only guy that had all of his 2 year olds on steroids. His 2 year olds were as physically mature as 3 year olds. This gave Lukas a huge edge. His 3 year olds were bigger and stronger than everyone else's. As I've stated before, nobody breaks down more horses percentage wise. Some of the biggest insurance companies will not insure his horses. What more do you need to know?
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#32
06-07-2006, 05:21 AM
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I don't know anyone in the business that thinks Lukas is a good trainer. Have any of you been to the track in the morning? Have you seen Lukas' horses train? His horses are so sore it is unbelievable. Everyone just shakes their heads every time they see another one of his horses hobble by.
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#33
06-07-2006, 05:53 AM
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying but not about Eugene Klein. If my memory is correct, Klein totally felt like Lukas duped him and Klein was considering suing Lukas before he died.
As I've said before, Lukas had a lot of good qualities. He was bright, a hard worker, extremely driven, very well organized, had great assistants, was a great salesman, was a great public relations guy, etc. I do think he was good at picking yearlings, but when you have the resources to buy the horses with the best pedigress and the best confirmation, it makes picking yearlings much easier.
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#34
06-07-2006, 07:32 AM
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I'm sorry but noone cares about junkies Playa, junkies are a dime a dozen and a waste of space on this earth.
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#35
06-07-2006, 10:45 AM
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.....And he rips into PVal all the time. Dare I say the H word?
__________________
"I don't feel like that I am any better than anybody else" - Paul Newman
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#36
06-07-2006, 12:55 PM
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Monipenny, you do have some great points. I don't remember ever insulting Lukas's work ethic or committment. I have read the book on Charismatic and Lukas is quoted in there many times as saying how he missed the boat and screwed up with Charismatic. How he didn't think he was that good and had been concentrating on his other horses.
You wanted some facts on horses breaking down, well Richi just got done telling you some insurance companies won't even touch his horses. You think Pletcher and others have that problem? His also noted hsi 2 year olds were taking steroids. I'm sure that has nothing to do with all his breakdowns or the fact that he never had any talent training with older horses. Listen, this guy has had many accomplishments, but blindly supporting him like you and others are doing is riduculous.
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#37
06-07-2006, 01:04 PM
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Also, why has no Lukas supporter offered up a real reason that this guy has been terrible the past few years? Don't give me his sons injury. THis was very trajic, buy many great trainers and coaches have had bad things happen and their life and none of them have gone from a 30% winner to a 5% winner.
The way I see it there are a couple possible explanations. Lukas isn't getting near the quality of horses he used to. I don't think anyone would argue with this, but that really makes all of his accomplishments look like they only occurred because he had all the money for all the best horses. Or, he was ahead of the time on the pharmacy end of the sport and everyone caught up. If this is the case it makes all his accomplishments look like they were based on chemicals not his talent. Don't tell me it's his age. If that was true, we would see a gradual downfall ove r the years not this. Plus many great trainers have continued to be great at his age. SO why does he suddenly struggle so bad?
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#38
06-07-2006, 01:21 PM
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who am i moni? who the hell are you? certainly one who is blind LOL! a big dog? nothing i claim to be but i am a racehorseowner and i also select horses to claim for other owners in my trainers barn, i do have some involvement in this industry. do i imply oj is guilty? guilty as sin. you had a racist cop, a prosecutor named marcia clark who was banging one of the other prosecutors during the trial instead of doing her job and a city that was afriad of another rodney king type riot, thats why oj wasnt convicted in the CRIMINAL trial! he was convicted rather quickly in the civil trial however. barry bonds the greatest baseball player ever? LMFAO you get more hilarious by the minute? hell dumba$$(since you like calling names) he ADMITTED to using the creme and claims he thought it was for"arthritis"........LOL damn your as gullible as barry foolishly expected the public to believe. the year he hooks up with the balco guy is the year he breaks the home run record..............again youre blind! jeff you wanna call me a hyppocrite? well since you relike to call old posts of mine from the espn board the summer pval and julie were riding and competing against each on a daily basis ata extremely high level i was personally rooting for pval. i was rooting for the man to finally overcome all of his demons permanently. unfortunately that didnt happen and he pulled his MIA act and lied etc etc etc. hes been givin one too many chances, more than a "average" rider would. how many people would give a rats a$$ about pval if he couldnt ride, my guess is very few. well with the idiocy of some1 i dont know and some who i considers friends attacking me i guess its about time for me to head out to arlington and spend some time with the horses in the barn(always makes me feel better whether its a good or bad day) and hopefully watch the barn win a race. enjoy the rest of your day people
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#39
06-07-2006, 04:31 PM
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Playa I am a friend but you have beating on Lukas for years and always bring back the Antley thing. YOU are just wrong, even Somer tried to explain it to you. The guy took hours of interview footage, and cut out 90% of it. He showed the disparaging remarks about Antley not bonding with the horse(perhaps you forgot that while riding Strike The gold for Zito he missed a workout one morning, bringing the same exact criticism from Zito). They didn't show the part of the interview where Lukas praised Antley for his fine rides and credited him with saving the horses life. The guy who made the interview admitted all of this, it was public. Its tiring dude, if you wanna hate someone go for it, but noone cares about the Antley thing because the rest of us know that the interview that was SHOWN wasnt the full story, and thats not Waynes fault.\ I don't disagree with much you say, but on this one I always will disagree and speak out. Its not personal.
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#40
06-07-2006, 05:56 PM
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A good friend always help you out with your faults.
__________________
"I don't feel like that I am any better than anybody else" - Paul Newman
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