Brother Derek is a fraud...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Spent the week in Savannah, doesn't look like I missed much, I was glad Bernarnini won, but I am also glad I missed the "slobbing on the knob" that he probably received...

actually wasn't as slobby as i expected. he looked good, did you see the race?

funny tho...dahoss and i had a several page long discussion, stayed very respectful..it's more interesting if you have differing views and opinions...but some on here can't take any disputing on here at all. take it too personally.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

actually wasn't as slobby as i expected. he looked good, did you see the race?

funny tho...dahoss and i had a several page long discussion, stayed very respectful..it's more interesting if you have differing views and opinions...but some on here can't take any disputing on here at all. take it too personally.

I saw the race, we pulled in time to see the Kings Bishop and then we watched the Travers, he looked good, no doubt about it...No internet for a solid week...

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

..never liked this horse or his hype...he has never beat any good horses....Baffert loved Bob and John today but he hung like a rat...Cindago living up to his early reputation as being a nice horse....

like i said , what a joke of a statement

[Danzig]

yikes...no internet.

i hear savannah is beautiful...all these trips thru georgia and haven't seen it yet. good time?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

yikes...no internet.

i hear savannah is beautiful...all these trips thru georgia and haven't seen it yet. good time?

It is very nice, my wife and I love those "Older Southern Cities" like Charleston, New Orleans and now Savannah, we have been to Charleston a couple of times and it is fun, but I really liked Savannah. I like to go on the tours and learn about the history of those cities, eat some good seafood and just relax. The people of Savannah love their liquor, there's no open container law and they sure take advantage of it...

[Danzig]

charleston is beautiful, altho one trip there was marred by a battle with food poisoning...tony never gets sick--man, he more than made up for it then....yikes.

if you ever get a chance, get to natchez. had no significance militarily in the civil war, so it pretty much went untouched...a lot of beautiful homes there to tour. too many to do in a wknd for sure. some are privately owned and are only open certain times of the year..some are bed and breakfasts.

[Danzig]

just read about the race on bhorse, sounds like derek was rank early on and wore himself out. he lives to fight another day. da stoops...what's up with him?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

charleston is beautiful, altho one trip there was marred by a battle with food poisoning...tony never gets sick--man, he more than made up for it then....yikes.

if you ever get a chance, get to natchez. had no significance militarily in the civil war, so it pretty much went untouched...a lot of beautiful homes there to tour. too many to do in a wknd for sure. some are privately owned and are only open certain times of the year..some are bed and breakfasts.

Where do you guys eat at in Charleston that he got sick? That had to be miserable...

[Danzig]

we ate at the noisy oyster one night...couple hours later, he was sick as a dog and all thru the night. one of the worst days of my life the next day...he was hurting from head to toe, and i drove us all the way from charleston home, about 14 hours, on about 3 hours sleep.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Why, ArlJim. Don't you know? A horse is a fraud when it loses. If Bernardini loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against older horses. If Lava Man loses next time out, he will be a fraud who will have been exposed by running against another good horse, The Tin Man. If Invasor loses next time out, he will be exposed as a fraud because he never before faced tough competition.

You get the picture.

--Dunbar

I think you're on to something, but if Bernardini happens to lose his next race, i would be willing to make a huge wager that Joel will NOT start a thread titled "Bernardini - Nothing but a Fraud".

[Cannon Shell]

I think that Brother Derek should be classified as "one dimensional" as opposed to a "fraud". He needs the lead to be genuinely effective.

Originally Posted by dr.fager

" Brother Derek is a fraud... "

that's kind of the way I feel about you on ATRAB

The don't listen

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I have to call into the question the whole notion of a horse being a fraud.
How exactly does that work?

Fraud is a relative term....I knew he was never as good as his hype earlier this year and it has shown in his last three starts....all I heard from the West coast was "he's the best 3-year-old out here since Sunday Silance" from the clockers - and I knew better...he never beat anyone earlier this year out there and I even told my man JJ, who was his rep, that I thought he was way overrated...and he showed once again that he is NOT one of the best of his generation like everybody wanted to lable him earlier this year...

I'd love to own him...no question about it....fraud may have been a harsh term but I meant it relatively - some of you should have understood that I ive turthful opinions...not trying to undermine the horse...I doubt he has feelings anyway

Kind of like Wonder Lady Anne L...she is a fraud...a Dutrow special that probably isn't of the caliber of 99% of the Grade 1 winners in the world, but she won one and that can't be taken from her....it is all relative...

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

This fraud stuff is really starting to get ridiculous. Joel, I enjoy a good deal of your posts, and your insight but come on man. I didn't bet him at 2-5, and agree that the competition in those races this year was a bit suspect but as a writer you should realize the power of your words. By no means is this horse a fraud. He is a grade 1 winning Cal Bred. Is he the best horse in the world, no, but hardly a fraud.

Didn't mean to be unsensative...it is railbird talk...horsemen talk...didn;t mean to harm anybody or anything...it is light-hearted at best....I'll be politically correct when I have to, but most of the time I speak truthfully, which some people can't handle...

Not a writer anyway...just enjoy writing on the side because I love the game...

I will continue to watch this horse. He had a very rough TC. The Derby was horrible for him. He is game and he can run. We will see. The horse is far from done unless there is some injury we do not know about.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I think you're on to something, but if Bernardini happens to lose his next race, i would be willing to make a huge wager that Joel will NOT start a thread titled "Bernardini - Nothing but a Fraud".

Nope, because he isn't a fraud...its that simple...some horses have the substance and some don't.....Bernardini definately is a champion.....Brother Derek is a Benchmark Cal-bred that had a good ride and was treated like a champion when all the while he was winning very average races all spring....

Big difference here...Brother Derek could not warm up Bernardini and I knew that back in May...you can tell the goods and the 'frauds' when you see them....

If you want, I'll call some more 'overrated' horses (more politically correct i suppose than fraud):

1) Bordonaro when he faces the best sprinters
2) Lava Man when he runs outside of the West Coast
3) Fleet Indian when she faces any pace pressure at all
4) All American turf horses when they face the good Euros in the BC, especially The Tin Man
5) The entire handicap division when they face the best 3-year-olds (like Bernardini, Discreet Cat, etc.)
6) All of the 3-year-old fillies are horrible IMO and it will show when they face older mares in the Distaff
7) EZ Warrior and Principal Secret when they face real 2-year-olds form the East coast
8) Jazil when he faces the best of his generation (just like I thought of Steppenwolfer all year when I saw him lose an entry-level allowance race at LaDowns to a La-bred this past winter...plodders)
9) Aragorn and Miesque's Approval when they faces Euros in the BC Mile


...want more?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Nope, because he isn't a fraud...its that simple...some horses have the substance and some don't.....Bernardini definately is a champion.....Brother Derek is a Benchmark Cal-bred that had a good ride and was treated like a champion when all the while he was winning very average races all spring....

Big difference here...Brother Derek could not warm up Bernardini and I knew that back in May...you can tell the goods and the 'frauds' when you see them....

If you want, I'll call some more 'overrated' horses (more politically correct i suppose than fraud):

1) Bordonaro when he faces the best sprinters
2) Lava Man when he runs outside of the West Coast
3) Fleet Indian when she faces any pace pressure at all
4) All American turf horses when they face the good Euros in the BC, especially The Tin Man
5) The entire handicap division when they face the best 3-year-olds (like Bernardini, Discreet Cat, etc.)
6) All of the 3-year-old fillies are horrible IMO and it will show when they face older mares in the Distaff
7) EZ Warrior and Principal Secret when they face real 2-year-olds form the East coast
8) Jazil when he faces the best of his generation (just like I thought of Steppenwolfer all year when I saw him lose an entry-level allowance race at LaDowns to a La-bred this past winter...plodders)
9) Aragorn and Miesque's Approval when they faces Euros in the BC Mile


...want more?

Nope, thats plenty. I've got it now.
Champions = Horses that Joel says have the goods
Frauds = the rest

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Seems like one could simply write about the horses they think are champs.Why write negative stuff about Grade One- Winning 3 year olds(Jazil,Brother Derek,and WLA.)

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Nope, thats plenty. I've got it now.
Champions = Horses that Joel says have the goods
Frauds = the rest

If a horse carries a reputation that isn't near as good as his true ability - then isn't that classified as somewhat of a fraudulant or misleading notion to non-horse racing experts?

Food for thought.....

The best ever are horses like Funny Cide and Giacomo who capture so much national attention when they win the Derby and...well...I won't get into the rest but you know the story.....

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Seems like one could simply write about the horses they think are champs.Why write negative stuff about Grade One- Winning 3 year olds(Jazil,Brother Derek,and WLA.)

True....negativity is not great to report, but this runs deep because i knew this horse wasn't legitimate all along when EVERYBODY in the racing world was ready to lay the Roses over his withers before he even ran in the Derby (at least in the Spring they were)...

I'm pretty close to this situation knowing some of the connections, and watching him race and train I just knew he was "just a horse" - so to speak.....

Didn't mean to spread too much negativity...God knows we indeed do have more negativity in this game than any other game in the world....