2/5-6 (SA): Las Virgenes, Thunder Rd, Strub; San Antonio

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I wonder where Twirling Candy would have finished had he run in the Donn Handicap today. Visually, he still seems to be a bit of a run-off type going two turns and I don't think he would have enjoyed being placed somewhere between Square Eddie/Morning Line and Rule/I Want Revenge.

Nonetheless, a very powerful performance in what amounted to a second level allowance race based on the rest of the field (unless you're ready to call Indian Firewater a real Grade 2 horse).

Flip flop, flip flop.

You keep hanging on to that run-off can't turn lead it's honorable work, knish. You want to jump on board the Sid's train now or you figure might as well take a shot a rein breaks and he jumps into the stands?

I remember a noted brilliant horse guy in Cal suggesting all the Graded 3 year old races always looked the part of a second level allowance? Shirley, you must remember such posts from that well versed gentleman? FlipO

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Flip flop, flip flop.

You keep hanging on to that run-off can't turn lead it's honorable work, knish. You want to jump on board the Sid's train now or you figure might as well take a shot a rein breaks and he jumps into the stands?

I remember a noted brilliant horse guy in Cal suggesting all the Graded 3 year old races always looked the part of a second level allowance? Shirley, you must remember such posts from that well versed gentleman? FlipO

Whatever. Can't wait for the superlatives that will be thrown around if this horse is able to hang on at 10f in the Big Cap vs. Gladding and Aggie Engineer. Where's Richard's Kid when you need him?

Again, he would have been gutted in the Donn like all the rest. But somehow savaging the mighty Tweebster (an 8th start maiden breaker, mind you) makes him a monster. At least he didn't need a free pass from the CA stewards to prove himself "much the best" yesterday.

Wake me up when he beats something better than sprinter Smiling Tiger.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Gladding only took 7 tries to break his maiden at Calder ... and with that trainer change - a Big Cap victory almost felt inevitable.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Gladding only took 7 tries to break his maiden at Calder ... and with that trainer change - a Big Cap victory almost felt inevitable.

Actually, how likely is it that Sadler will run Gladding in the Big Cap?

I'm guessing a trip to Dubai for the Godolphin Mile or perhaps the World Cup is more likely.

Of course, I totally forgot about Game On Dude and Mythical Power who together accounted for 2 of Lone Star Park's (that's in Texas) 3 graded stakes (all Grade 3) last year.

Twirling Candy may prove to be legendary early next Month.

All that aside, I'd pay to see a Twirling Candy-Sidney's Candy match race at a flat mile.

Get P Val and Julie Krone to ride and there can be side wagering on who ends up hitting their mount the most down the stretch.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Actually, how likely is it that Sadler will run Gladding in the Big Cap?

I'm guessing a trip to Dubai for the Godolphin Mile or perhaps the World Cup is more likely.

Of course, I totally forgot about Game On Dude and Mythical Power who together accounted for 2 of Lone Star Park's (that's in Texas) 3 graded stakes (all Grade 3) last year.

Twirling Candy may prove to be legendary early next Month.

All that aside, I'd pay to see a Twirling Candy-Sidney's Candy match race at a flat mile.

Get P Val and Julie Krone to ride and there can be side wagering on who ends up hitting their mount the most down the stretch.

Both of those Bafferts can run a little.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Both of those Bafferts can run a little.

I agree, if by "a little", you mean they are Grade 3 caliber horses.

To this point, neither has any business winning a race like the Big Cap.

And yet they are likely to be Twirling Candy's biggest "threats" in that race.

[goingtothewhip]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I agree, if by "a little", you mean they are Grade 3 caliber horses.

To this point, neither has any business winning a race like the Big Cap.

And yet they are likely to be Twirling Candy's biggest "threats" in that race.

Neither has a chance of winning the Big Cap so i wouldn't worry. TC's biggest threats will come from elsewhere, i.e. Misremembered or a Matto Mondo type.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Whatever. Can't wait for the superlatives that will be thrown around if this horse is able to hang on at 10f in the Big Cap vs. Gladding and Aggie Engineer. Where's Richard's Kid when you need him?

Again, he would have been gutted in the Donn like all the rest. But somehow savaging the mighty Tweebster (an 8th start maiden breaker, mind you) makes him a monster. At least he didn't need a free pass from the CA stewards to prove himself "much the best" yesterday.

Wake me up when he beats something better than sprinter Smiling Tiger.

Gutted in the Donn? Morning Line ran his brains out. Morning Line has the guts of a Tiznow but the speed of a horse a few shades below. So you think Morning Line or Stem Cell Eddie were the pot that were going to cook a colt that was 8 lengths faster? Glad you lined up the Big Cap disclaimers in advance..lol

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Gutted in the Donn? Morning Line ran his brains out. Morning Line has the guts of a Tiznow but the speed of a horse a few shades below. So you think Morning Line or Stem Cell Eddie were the pot that were going to cook a colt that was 8 lengths faster? Glad you lined up the Big Cap disclaimers in advance..lol

Explain the 8 lengths faster part.

Didn't Morning Line, despite having to duel throughout in the Donn, still register a Beyer figure higher than Twirling Candy, who sat in the garden spot throughout awaiting an epic hookup with patented stretch crumbler Indian Firewater, did in the Strub?

Do you even remember that this horse got stuffed in the Goodwood last fall with an identical trip? I know, I know, that was on Cushion track...

Amazing the difference in reputation a horse can earn when running against a field of non-winners 2x allowance foes as opposed to a field featuring a two-time Pacific Classic winner, Hollywood Gold Cup winner, future BC Mile winner, BC Sprint runner-up, etc.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Explain the 8 lengths faster part.

Didn't Morning Line, despite having to duel throughout in the Donn, still register a Beyer figure higher than Twirling Candy, who sat in the garden spot throughout awaiting an epic hookup with patented stretch crumbler Indian Firewater, did in the Strub?

Do you even remember that this horse got stuffed in the Goodwood last fall with an identical trip? I know, I know, that was on Cushion track...

Amazing the difference in reputation a horse can earn when running against a field of non-winners 2x allowance foes as opposed to a field featuring a two-time Pacific Classic winner, Hollywood Gold Cup winner, future BC Mile winner, BC Sprint runner-up, etc.

Explain the "sat in the garden spot throughout" isn't that impossible for a run off sprinter?

As for the 8lengths faster its simple..Sadler is improving the animal to be better and reach his potential.

The Goodward experience was a stepping stone vs. a set back as some noted experts hastily summerized. hence their premmature conclusions are devoid of reality.

As for 2x other then field it sucked but the 2011 Donn was hardily the 1997 rendition. Morning line Stem Cell Eddie I Want a leg and Giant slow poke? A telling group

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Explain the "sat in the garden spot throughout" isn't that impossible for a run off sprinter?

It was the garden spot because he had an outclassed sprinter burning himself out on the lead with a bunch of slugs directly behind him. All Rosario had to do was taking a massive hold and put his feet in the dashboard for about 6f and wait for Indian Firewater to die.

As for the 8lengths faster its simple..Sadler is improving the animal to be better and reach his potential.

In other words, you made it up.

The Goodward experience was a stepping stone vs. a set back as some noted experts hastily summerized. hence their premmature conclusions are devoid of reality.

Yes, a stepping stone to the BC Classic.

He failed.

As for 2x other then field it sucked but the 2011 Donn was hardily the 1997 rendition. Morning line Stem Cell Eddie I Want a leg and Giant slow poke? A telling group

Obviously, you don't get what's being said. All those horses are quality speed horses that can stay over a route of ground. Arguably, Twirling Candy has only faced one such horse in his career, that being Crown Of Thorns, who not only dueled with him in the Goodwood for 6f, but also rerallied and put him away down the lane. And Crown Of Thorns is no monster.

What do you think would happen if Twirling Candy had to tackle 3 or 4 such horses as those that lined up in the Donn? I'll concede he probably would have finished in front of Square Eddie.

I realize you have an Atlas-like struggle here hoisting the World of Twirling Candy BS you've created for yourself.

Just don't get yourself hurt when you end up having to shrug...

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It was the garden spot because he had an outclassed sprinter burning himself out on the lead with a bunch of slugs directly behind him. All Rosario had to do was taking a massive hold and put his feet in the dashboard for about 6f and wait for Indian Firewater to die.



What you fail to comprehend doesnt suggest fiction .



Yes, a stepping stone to the BC Classic.

He needed more time to learn. Failure means the journey ended it is just beginning

Obviously, you don't get what's being said. All those horses are speed horses are either retread laimos or gutsy slowish types with zero future Arguably, Twirling Candy has only faced one such horse in his career, that being Crown Of Thorns, who not only dueled with him in the Goodwood for 6f, but also rerallied and put him away down the lane. And Crown Of Thorns is no monster.

What do you think would happen if Twirling Candy had to tackle 3 or 4 such horses as those that lined up in the Donn? He would have sat comfortably behind them (something you have still failed to admit and suggestted was impossible) and out finished the super slug Giant poison Oak by 5. I'll concede he probably would have finished in front of Square Eddie.

I realize you have an Atlas-like struggle here hoisting the World of Twirling Candy BS you've created for yourself.

Just don't get yourself hurt when you end up having to shrug...

FTFY

I was wrong works for me when I realize I am. Give it a try it frees the soul.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

FTFY

I was wrong works for me when I realize I am. Give it a try it frees the soul.

Hah! You "fixed that for me"?

That was one of the biggest butcher jobs in the history of embedded quote posting on the internet.

Yeah, Twirling Candy would have sat 5th in the Donn, what...4 or 5 lengths off the pace?

His running line in that race would have been:

3-1/2 3-nk 1-hd 2-hd 6-9

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Hah! You "fixed that for me"?

That was one of the biggest butcher jobs in the history of embedded quote posting on the internet.

Yeah, Twirling Candy would have sat 5th in the Donn, what...4 or 5 lengths off the pace?

His running line in that race would have been:

3-1/2 3-nk 1-hd 2-hd 6-9

Wow..you really think TC would have finished 6th in that race? Lay off the sauce

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Wow..you really think TC would have finished 6th in that race? Lay off the sauce

Glad you haven't picked up on any of the hyperbolic tongue-in-cheek back and forth between Freddy and I.

As it stands, Twirling Candy was beaten about 4 lengths by Richard's Kid in the Goodwood when only having to tussle with perennial bridesmaid Crown Of Thorns early.

It's not ridiculous to presume that having to fend off the bulldog Morning Line and pesky has-beens Rule and I Want Revenge after chasing Square Eddie early would have seen him give way even more severely than he did at Hollywood Park.

Not to mention, he's a sensationally overhyped racehorse, the kind jockeys (especially Kent Desormeaux) love to completely stop riding when they are beaten.

[Indian Charlie]

Rollo, I think it is premature to write off a horse based on one race, namely the Goodwood.

Perhaps he just didn't fire his best race that day.

Or, perhaps, as Freddy said, it was a learning experience. Keep in mind that he was still a pretty lightly raced 3yo at that point going against much more experienced older horses.

His overall race record, minus the Goodwood, shows a horse that is still on the improve.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Rollo, I think it is premature to write off a horse based on one race, namely the Goodwood.

Perhaps he just didn't fire his best race that day.

Or, perhaps, as Freddy said, it was a learning experience. Keep in mind that he was still a pretty lightly raced 3yo at that point going against much more experienced older horses.

His overall race record, minus the Goodwood, shows a horse that is still on the improve.

I'm not trying to write him off at all. He's probably a superior sprinter/miler. But he has yet to prove himself a superior two-turn horse, much less the "best horse in America".

Beyond 8f though, I think he's quite vulnerable. He's had two cakewalks, the Del Mar Derby and the Strub, and one schooling in the Goodwood. From my viewpoint, he ran the same race in the latter two. The only difference (unless you want to bring up surface) was the competition. In that regard I don't think you can say he's "improving" based on his flashy Strub win. Any other manner of victory in that poor edition of the race would have actually exposed him.

Unfortunately, even if he avoids the dreaded "minor setback" that leads to retirement, he'll probably only get one true acid test this year (of course, the end-all BC Classic) to prove his worth. One look at the San Antonio group (how the hell did Aggie Engineer become an odds-on stakes horse? This time last year I would have expected him to be running in high-priced claimers) foretells the events of this spring/summer at Hollywood and Del Mar.

All that aside, given the race setup, how do you think he would have fared in the Donn?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I'm not trying to write him off at all. He's probably a superior sprinter/miler. But he has yet to prove himself a superior two-turn horse, much less the "best horse in America".

Beyond 8f though, I think he's quite vulnerable. He's had two cakewalks, the Del Mar Derby and the Strub, and one schooling in the Goodwood. From my viewpoint, he ran the same race in the latter two. The only difference (unless you want to bring up surface) was the competition. In that regard I don't think you can say he's "improving" based on his flashy Strub win. Any other manner of victory in that poor edition of the race would have actually exposed him.

Unfortunately, even if he avoids the dreaded "minor setback" that leads to retirement, he'll probably only get one true acid test this year (of course, the end-all BC Classic) to prove his worth. One look at the San Antonio group (how the hell did Aggie Engineer become an odds-on stakes horse? This time last year I would have expected him to be running in high-priced claimers) foretells the events of this spring/summer at Hollywood and Del Mar.

All that aside, given the race setup, how do you think he would have fared in the Donn?

I haven't watched the Donn, but knowing those horses, I gotta believe something is fishy with them getting a higher BSF than TC got in the Strub.

Without having seen it, I could see the pace being an issue like you said, but I'd have been shocked to see him run 6th by 9.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I haven't watched the Donn, but knowing those horses, I gotta believe something is fishy with them getting a higher BSF than TC got in the Strub.

Without having seen it, I could see the pace being an issue like you said, but I'd have been shocked to see him run 6th by 9.

What the heck does the Strub fig have to do with the Donn fig?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

What the heck does the Strub fig have to do with the Donn fig?

Someone mentioned it in this argument, that's all.