Knicks Get Melo: Did they give up too much?

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont think he would have agreed to an extension with NJ. The money difference isnt that much. The knicks absolutely botched this beyond belief. They should have back-channeled to him that we will not give up all our complimentary pieces to trade for you. Ride it out, sign with us and we have a shot to win a championship next year. Winning in NY will make you way more money than the difference between re-upping. Not to mention they could do a sign and trade with Denver AFTER the season like Cleveland and LeBron and Toronto and Bosh did.

The funny thing is LeBron gets blasted but the reality is he manipulated the system to make his team better and took less money. Anthony played the system simply to make more money and weakened his team in the process.

Exactly why they had to pay up to get him. No one will ever know what was promised and discussed when Carmelo sat down with Prokhorov, but I really think that they were a legitimate threat to get him if the Knicks balked on the trade and insisted on signing him in the off season.
Winning would probably make up the difference and then some money wise, but there ain't no money like gaurenteed max money. Besides winning isn't a sure thing, especially with having to get past the Celts and Heat.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

In the end, I think as long as D'Antoni is the coach, this team isn't winning a championship. He's an offensive genius, but his laissez-faire attitude towards defense just isn't conducive to the type of basketball that gets to and wins NBA Finals. I can't recall a team winning a championship in the NBA by playing 120-115 shootouts every game.

I think this is really what it all comes down to. This team is going to score, but Amare plays little defense and Melo plays less. Even if they add a Paul or Williams next year they aren't going to outscore the better teams in the east and they certainly aren't going to be able to keep up defensively.

Now that Carmelo Watch is over how about Rose Watch? Come on ESPN lets get it!@

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Exactly why they had to pay up to get him. No one will ever know what was promised and discussed when Carmelo sat down with Prokhorov, but I really think that they were a legitimate threat to get him if the Knicks balked on the trade and insisted on signing him in the off season.
Winning would probably make up the difference and then some money wise, but there ain't no money like gaurenteed max money. Besides winning isn't a sure thing, especially with having to get past the Celts and Heat.

I am still not convinced that the Nets bogeyman was ever in the running. I think the Lakers faux offer should have made the Knicks realize that this was all a smokescreen and there logically wasn't any reason that any NBA all-star would willingly choose the Nets unless there was just no other option. I suppose we may never know the real story

[jms62]

Is there any chance whatsoever that Phil Jackson finishes his career as the Knicks coach?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jms62

Is there any chance whatsoever that Phil Jackson finishes his career as the Knicks coach?

Not unless they are 100% primed to win an NBA title. I think beatings by the Heat, celtics and Bulls would be too much for his ego to take.

People are talking about adding Chris Paul but I don't see how they make that work. Can someone explain?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont agree that you get Carmelo at all costs. He is a great scorer and will thrive in D'antoni's system but with no draft picks, no depth, perhaps a smaller salary cap and two max contract guys to deal with giving up that much to a team with close to zero leverage is criminal.

Felton, Chandler, Randolph and fat boy Curry's contract should have been plenty. If you call his bluff and he winds up elsewhere? So be it. Yeah there will be plenty of excitement in the Garden when Anthony averages 35 a game an the Knicks get torched in the Playoffs

I can assure they will love it, the fans here have been waiting on Melo to perform post-season and carry the Nugs through for a long time. No dice here, and the current NY team is far worse than this years Nuggets team was and it will look that way. Good riddance.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Exactly why they had to pay up to get him. No one will ever know what was promised and discussed when Carmelo sat down with Prokhorov, but I really think that they were a legitimate threat to get him if the Knicks balked on the trade and insisted on signing him in the off season.
Winning would probably make up the difference and then some money wise, but there ain't no money like gaurenteed max money. Besides winning isn't a sure thing, especially with having to get past the Celts and Heat.

He could not beat Kobe (basically solo) when he was here. They will never get by those two monsters.

[freddymo]

Noah Rose Boozer vs Amare Mello billups..I would take a shot in a series.. Forget what they gave up, are the Knicks significant better suited for the next 5 years today then they were 3 days ago.. Forget the salary cap because if NY is screwed so is Miami Boston etc.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Noah Rose Boozer vs Amare Mello billups..I would take a shot in a series.. Forget what they gave up, are the Knicks significant better suited for the next 5 years today then they were 3 days ago.. Forget the salary cap because if NY is screwed so is Miami Boston etc.

Please stop. This is making me feel worse about this.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Please stop. This is making me feel worse about this.

Deron Williams reported to Nets DONE DEAL

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Please stop. This is making me feel worse about this.

Gallo has health issues. Chandler is a free agent anyway and hardily the answer, Felton was fine but hardily the long term answer. Whats the big deal the 3 mil? They kept the kid who is likely the best compliment to the two big guys. They need a coach not Gallo and Chandler

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Gallo has health issues. Chandler is a free agent anyway and hardily the answer, Felton was fine but hardily the long term answer. Whats the big deal the 3 mil? They kept the kid who is likely the best compliment to the two big guys. They need a coach not Gallo and Chandler

Stoudmire has health issues. Why do you think they weren't able to insure his contract.

The point that everyone (and you) seems to be missing is that when you give up all your chips, regardless of how you regard them, you no longer have any hands to play. The entire salary structure of the NBA makes cheap help that performs above league average (like all of the players except the big guy who obviously has not had enough experience to make an impact) very important in not only making up your rotation but having the ability to add further pieces. The Knicks now have tight cap space, very few draft picks of value, virtually no desirable players and a roster full of holes.

Is Miami in a similar boat? Yes BUT they have LeBron James who not only is a far better player than Carmelo or Amare but someone who makes players around him better. The ability of the Knicks management to be able to come up with the type of players that can fill in the holes under the present circumstances is certainly questionable.

Originally Posted by freddymo

Noah Rose Boozer vs Amare Mello billups..I would take a shot in a series.. Forget what they gave up, are the Knicks significant better suited for the next 5 years today then they were 3 days ago.. Forget the salary cap because if NY is screwed so is Miami Boston etc.

Bulls all day. No way Billups could warm Rose up at this point.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Stoudmire has health issues. Why do you think they weren't able to insure his contract.

The point that everyone (and you) seems to be missing is that when you give up all your chips, regardless of how you regard them, you no longer have any hands to play. The entire salary structure of the NBA makes cheap help that performs above league average (like all of the players except the big guy who obviously has not had enough experience to make an impact) very important in not only making up your rotation but having the ability to add further pieces. The Knicks now have tight cap space, very few draft picks of value, virtually no desirable players and a roster full of holes.

Is Miami in a similar boat? Yes BUT they have LeBron James who not only is a far better player than Carmelo or Amare but someone who makes players around him better. The ability of the Knicks management to be able to come up with the type of players that can fill in the holes under the present circumstances is certainly questionable.

The knicks are way better today then they were days ago. The team was 6/12 in there last 18 and the meat of the schedule is upon them. They know have the best 1-4 they have had in a very long time featuring 2 of the best 10 players in the world. They will get Paul in a few years per Paul and since everybody plays by the same cap rules it is what it is. billup expires in two years so either you can off him and his contract late next year or you just play him til the end. Either way its Billup not some bum like Curry, Billups is way better then Felton.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Bulls all day. No way Billups could warm Rose up at this point.

Ok but at least its a series. Rose, Noah, Boozer vs Gallo, Felton and Amare is a kill

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The knicks are way better today then they were days ago. The team was 6/12 in there last 18 and the meat of the schedule is upon them. They know have the best 1-4 they have had in a very long time featuring 2 of the best 10 players in the world. They will get Paul in a few years per Paul and since everybody plays by the same cap rules it is what it is. billup expires in two years so either you can off him and his contract late next year or you just play him til the end. Either way its Billup not some bum like Curry, Billups is way better then Felton.

You miss the point again. They are not going to be in position to get Paul because they wont have enough money or talent to get him. Obviously the bar has been set and now ALL the top players will want a sign and trade. The Knicks jut dont have the cap space, especially if the cap shrinks in the new agreement, nor do they have anything tangible to pull off a deal for Paul.

The Knicks as currently constructed are not anything more than a 1 round and out team. This fantasy that they will be able to find a good role players for nothing is just that, fantasy.

Plus with al the commotion about player movement the owners may hold out for an NFL style "franchise" tag which will make the Knicks plight even tougher.

Billups is a 35 year old PG who can't guard anyone.

If you had to pick any player in the league to be on your team right now who would it be?


I'd pick Rose. I think he's going to be the most accomplished player in the league once Kobe and Duncan retire. If he were 6'6" with the same athleticism he would be by far the best player right now.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ok but at least its a series. Rose, Noah, Boozer vs Gallo, Felton and Amare is a kill

Seriously? You realize the Knicks are playin Ronny Turiaf at Center and will have to play Sheldon Williams 15 minutes a game, more if Anthony, Turiaf or Stoudamire get in foul trouble? They have no back SG that can shoot? They have a 35 year old PG who doesn't guard anyone? Bill Walker wil getting playing time? If this was the Sprite 3 on 3 contest they Knicks would be fine. But since you need at least an 8 man rotation in the system that they play in you realize how weak players 5-8 are?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

If you had to pick any player in the league to be on your team right now who would it be?


I'd pick Rose. I think he's going to be the most accomplished player in the league once Kobe and Duncan retire. If he were 6'6" with the same athleticism he would be by far the best player right now.

I'd still take LeBron. Probably Durant next just because no one else his age comes close to the type of player he is.