Is it over for the unions?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Wow, what an over simplification....and I reject the hypothesis that good teachers are rare. As a whole teachers are among the best that society has to offer.

Good people for sure. I hold nothing personal against the group. I remember the good teachers from my education, of the many that I have had, very few stick out as good. Those that do are a rare breed. A great teacher is not common despite what people might want to believe. Greatness is not more common in a noble profession just because it is noble. It is an art.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Good people for sure. I hold nothing personal against the group. I remember the good teachers from my education, of the many that I have had, very few stick out as good. Those that do are a rare breed. A great teacher is not common despite what people might want to believe. Greatness is not more common in a noble profession just because it is noble. It is an art.

I disagree. Good and great teachers are the norm. Bad teachers are rare.

You have to hand it to the Republicans - they sure are good at building straw men and demons out of kindergarten teachers

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

I disagree. Good and great teachers are the norm. Bad teachers are rare.

You have to hand it to the Republicans - they sure are good at building straw men and demons out of kindergarten teachers

Bad schools are the norm in this country, period. Money does not make a school any better, ask Newark, NJ, worst and most expensive. Good teachers are not common, great teachers are very rare. It must be nice to have gone to a school that promotes that type of thinking, I did not, I doubt most Americans had that opportunity. I know where I come from, this is not the case at all. My Kindergarten teacher was excellent, by the way.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Bad schools are the norm in this country, period.

Strange belief. Have any stats to back that up?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Strange belief. Have any stats to back that up?

The paper.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_793185.html

[somerfrost]

We hear about bad schools, more political fodder but even the bad schools have wonderful teachers...many factors are involved, resources and parental involvement for example.

[Clip-Clop]

Unless of course, kids are just getting dumber.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

We hear about bad schools, more political fodder but even the bad schools have wonderful teachers...many factors are involved, resources and parental involvement for example.

I agree parents are no better than schools. Whole different debate there with no real solution, sadly. Good luck regulating that mess. Full circle here but, should not those "wonderful teachers" be rewarded based on their own merits? Or just lumped in with everyone else.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

The paper.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_793185.html

That's not what you said. You said "Bad schools are the norm". Got any stats on that? Because what you posted didn't have much to do with your assumption.

Oh, wait! Okay, I see, we're just going with, "because I think that". Got it

Good thing Walker just stripped out that school budget in Wisconsin (in his regular budget), even preventing local towns from getting that money back for their schools through local tax increases. No money to schools, and Walker doesn't care what your town thinks or wants to spend on your own local schools - he hereby renders you unable to do a thing about it. And good the Republicans in the House are trying to do the same. Because we need to take that money away from our overachieving schools, and give it as corporate tax breaks! Because money doesn't have anything to do with educational quality. Nope. Nothing at all. Those teachers just need themselves and students. Maybe a roof. But that's not a requirement.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Unless of course, kids are just getting dumber.

Again, overly simplistic! Parents are less involved, poverty is a pervasive element where hopelessness compromises the child's ability to learn in many ways, discipline, language issues in an increasing non-English speaking society etc

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

I agree parents are no better than schools. Whole different debate there with no real solution, sadly. Good luck regulating that mess. Full circle here but, should not those "wonderful teachers" be rewarded based on their own merits? Or just lumped in with everyone else.

Agree that teachers should be rewarded based on merit but without a union how exactly does that happen?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

That's not what you said. You said "Bad schools are the norm". Got any stats on that? Because what you posted didn't have much to do with your assumption.

Oh, wait! Okay, I see, we're just going with, "because I think that". Got it

This is not what I think. As I said earlier, unless kids are not as smart as they used to be. It must be, at least partially, the fault of the school system. The current curriculum in schools does not promote competition among students at a young age. Kids are pushed along and pushed along until they are so far behind they are pushed out. Graduation rates should be enough of an example. Particularly in cities where big dollars are spent.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

This is not what I think. As I said earlier, unless kids are not as smart as they used to be. It must be, at least partially, the fault of the school system. The current curriculum in schools does not promote competition among students at a young age. Kids are pushed along and pushed along until they are so far behind they are pushed out.

Are you aware of the W Bush program, "No Child Left Behind"?

Well, anyway, the Republicans are cutting all the funding to schools they can, on both the federal and state levels. Enough of those greedy elite teachers, living the rich life! Good luck to us!

Jon Stewart had a funny program on this very subject the other day

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...-diane-ravitch

And, BTW, there is evidence that students are not as smart as they could be, due to diet. But it's been determined that wanting better nutrition in our schools, as the First Lady proposes, is a communist, socialist plot. NOBODY has a right to force our schools to serve more nutritious food! This is America!

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Agree that teachers should be rewarded based on merit but without a union how exactly does that happen?

Do you have a boss?

I do and I do my job very well. My performance is tied directly to my salary. The better I do my job the more money and concessions I ask for.
My co-workers are more highly educated than I am but not as talented. Therefore they are not as well rewarded.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

you need to borrow charlie's time machine if you want to ask about the beginning of the end. unions have been losing members and influence for the last 40 years.

what he said

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

And that's not the union's fault, is it?

of course not that's why ALL GOV contracts bar the justice department and defense should be open for lowest bid? Save OUR money?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

of course not that's why ALL GOV contracts bar the justice department and defense should be open for lowest bid? Save OUR money?

I don't understand what that has to do with unions and who is at the bargaining table, but I agree. Although I don't think lowest bid should always being the deciding factor (controversy over Lockheed using prison labor to assemble some Patriot missile parts for example)

I learned this today (Washington Post):

At a time when basic public employee union activities in state governments are under attack, Uncle Sam is staging what labor leaders say is the largest federal union organizing effort in history.

In contrast to Wisconsin and Ohio, where conservative politicians want to strip labor organizations of certain collective bargaining rights, 44,000 federal transportation security officers will be able to vote to choose a union, or no union, during a six-week period beginning Wednesday.

Two unions, the AFL-CIO-affiliated American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) and the independent National Treasury Employees Union (NTEU), are on the ballot, as is the option of no union. If none of the three options gets a majority, there will be a run-off.

A win on this would be huge, for the union movement and for screeners, who've had to cope with terrible work conditions such as working split shifts—three hours on, four hours off, three hours back at work.

The vote ends April 19th.

[AeWingnut]

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

try it with the ibew..lights out