Garden City, Gazelle, & Man O' War

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Revolution

my apologies. it just seems like the thread is very pro cacique. personally i would take the winners like showing up and go deputy over a horse that seems to have decided recently he likes to run second. yes i did lose money on him in the million.

Did he just win his third race back? I wouldn't say the Million race was a matter of him taking a liking to second place. His loss to English Channel following in between those two races was a pretty solid run to.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Did he just win his third race back? I wouldn't say the Million race was a matter of him taking a liking to second place. His loss to English Channel following in between those two races was a pretty solid run to.

he is not winning races this year (my wallet knows this) while showing up does nothing but win. i think go deputy has the best shot to beat showing up. his race at saratoga was very nice.

Originally Posted by Revolution

he is not winning races this year while showing up does nothing but win. i think go deputy has the best shot to beat showing up. his race at saratoga was very nice.

Thats absurd. I can promise you that facing English Channel and The Tin Man is a hell of a lot harder than facing go Between!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You make it sound as if "winning" is all that matters with no consideration to who the horse is winning or losing against. Thats just illogical.
Ok rev, what price do you think Go Between would be in this race? 30-1? Thats who he just beat. Sorry, I have seen Go Between and he sure as hell isn't in the same solar system as English Channel or The Tin Man.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Just started looking and Saturday's opener is freaking tremendous.. Stakes quality N2X on grass to kick the card off, and there's really NO ONE you can toss.

1st Post Time (1:00)
1 Mile Turf Open 3 Year Olds And Up
Allowance - Purse:$48,000
Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 El Prado Rob Leparoux J R 120 0 L
2 Kiss the Kid Hill C 118 0 L
3 Ever a Friend Nakatani C S 118 0 L
4 Rebuttal Prado E S 122 0 L
5 Outperformance Castellano J J 118 0 L
6 Real Quality Gomez G K 120 0 FTL
7 Planets Aligned Espinoza J L 120 0 L
8 Crimson Sun Luzzi M J 120 0 Blk-Off L
9 Yankee Master Velasquez C 118 0 L
10 River City Rebel Migliore R 118 0 L
A-Coupled: Real Quality and Crimson Sun

I have had Planets Aligned his last two races. His race on the 29th was wonderful. I think he has a little better competition in this one. But the horse is in great form. I will not be betting this race because it is hard to win 3 in a row. But I love this horse.

[tycharles01]

Mike dont try to talk him out of it. Just means the odds go up on Cacique, race was made for him.

Good distance good front speed= good stalking trip and a victory

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Revolution

he is not winning races this year (my wallet knows this) while showing up does nothing but win. i think go deputy has the best shot to beat showing up. his race at saratoga was very nice.

Showing Up does nothing but win because he is clearly better than everyone else. I think there is a difference between a horse who likes running second (Perfect Drift) and a horse who is up against evenly matched foes nearly every race he enters....Cacique.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Showing Up does nothing but win because he is clearly better than everyone else. I think there is a difference between a horse who likes running second (Perfect Drift) and a horse who is up against evenly matched foes nearly every race he enters....Cacique.

Yeah well let Cacique take on Go Between and see who is clearly best!!!!
Thats like saying an NBA team who goes 10-62 is not as good as a college team who goes 28-0. College teams don't have to face Kobe Bryant or Shaquille!!!

[Gander]

Why dont we just let this race decide who the better horse is.

Cacique is a horse that seems to have a history of excuses running against the best.

Showing Up has never run a bad race but lost in his only race against top quality (the derby). Other than that hes faced a cast of creampuffs.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Thats absurd. I can promise you that facing English Channel and The Tin Man is a hell of a lot harder than facing go Between!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You make it sound as if "winning" is all that matters with no consideration to who the horse is winning or losing against. Thats just illogical.
Ok rev, what price do you think Go Between would be in this race? 30-1? Thats who he just beat. Sorry, I have seen Go Between and he sure as hell isn't in the same solar system as English Channel or The Tin Man.

i have seen all of these horses and english channel and cacique are not as talented as showing up or after market. that is just my opinion. i like horses that are improving and both showing up and after market are making major improvements each race. they are both running bigger numbers each race. the older horses have not improved at all this year.

both 3yr olds are the two best american turf horses in my opinion, i am just not sure which one is better. i really like after market though and i loved showing ups win at arlington off those fast fractions. the older horses were very entertaining beating each other in their rivalry but none ever proved to be anything special. i do not think any of the older horses could ever compete with the europeans.

[Gander]

I can ssure you both English Channel and Cacique are more talented than After Market.

As for Showing Up, we will know in 48 hours.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah well let Cacique take on Go Between and see who is clearly best!!!!
Thats like saying an NBA team who goes 10-62 is not as good as a college team who goes 28-0. College teams don't have to face Kobe Bryant or Shaquille!!!

Just to be straight, I was saying Showing Up only wins because the opponents in his races are far and away less talented than he is, whereas Cacique is racing against horses who are fairly equal to him and therefor is going to see a few wins and a few losses. Definitely not saying Showing Up is at the level of Cacique, he is getting that test this weekend.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Gander

Why dont we just let this race decide who the better horse is.

Cacique is a horse that seems to have a history of excuses running against the best.

Showing Up has never run a bad race but lost in his only race against top quality (the derby). Other than that hes faced a cast of creampuffs.

I love the fact that showing up is in this race. Cacique will win and i wont have to lay 3-5.

Watch that money burning RG come in and ruin it for us all. Wouldnt that be hilarious?

Originally Posted by Revolution

i have seen all of these horses and english channel and cacique are not as talented as showing up or after market. that is just my opinion. i like horses that are improving and both showing up and after market are making major improvements each race. they are both running bigger numbers each race. the older horses have not improved at all this year.

both 3yr olds are the two best american turf horses in my opinion, i am just not sure which one is better. i really like after market though and i loved showing ups win at arlington off those fast fractions. the older horses were very entertaining beating each other in their rivalry but none ever proved to be anything special. i do not think any of the older horses could ever compete with the europeans.

Yeah that "impressive" win over the mighty Spider Power in the Hall of fame stakes really sold me that After Market was better than Cacique!!! LOL!!!

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Gander

Why dont we just let this race decide who the better horse is.

Cacique is a horse that seems to have a history of excuses running against the best.

Showing Up has never run a bad race but lost in his only race against top quality (the derby). Other than that hes faced a cast of creampuffs.

the race will decide little unless one clearly wins. i think go deputy is being left out here. gun to my head i would take showing up and if after market was here i would take after market. the older grass horses in america really are not that good.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yeah that "impressive" win over the mighty Spider Power in the Hall of fame stakes really sold me that After Market was better than Cacique!!! LOL!!!

your posts are full of hypocrisy. yesterday you were saying in the bellamy road thread he was a great horse, despite never beating one good horse.

the point is who is the most talented. not who has beaten who. showing up and after market have never lost on the turf. the others have. i will go with my knowledge of watching races and will stick with my belief that after market and showing up are better horses. personally i think the best female turf horse is also a 3yr old, wait a while. i think she could easily beat any female turf horse in america. all three of these 3yr olds are exceptional talents.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Gander

I can ssure you both English Channel and Cacique are more talented than After Market.

As for Showing Up, we will know in 48 hours.

i think you need to ask Mott his opinion of this horse. when you do you might change your mind. i do not like him running after market at 9f with kip deville and brilliant in there this weekend, but i think after market will love 12f.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I love the fact that showing up is in this race. Cacique will win and i wont have to lay 3-5.

Watch that money burning RG come in and ruin it for us all. Wouldnt that be hilarious?

cacique has been the money burner this year.

Originally Posted by Revolution

your posts are full of hypocrisy. yesterday you were saying in the bellamy road thread he was a great horse, despite never beating one good horse.

the point is who is the most talented. not who has beaten who. showing up and after market have never lost on the turf. the others have. i will go with my knowledge of watching races and will stick with my belief that after market and showing up are better horses. personally i think the best female turf horse is also a 3yr old, wait a while. i think she could easily beat any female turf horse in america. all three of these 3yr olds are exceptional talents.

After Market has never run a "big fig". Bellamy ran the fastest triple crown prep race in history. Now thats hypocrisy!!!
When you win by 18, does it really matter whos behind you? When After market runs a huge fig and wins by 18, believe me, I will meet you back here and tell you hes the goods. He ain't the goods.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by oracle80

After Market has never run a "big fig". Bellamy ran the fastest triple crown prep race in history. Now thats hypocrisy!!!
When you win by 18, does it really matter whos behind you? When After market runs a huge fig and wins by 18, believe me, I will meet you back here and tell you hes the goods. He ain't the goods.

after market is very good. showing up is better right now and i expect cornelio will choose showing up over after market on saturday and going forward. showing up's figures are just as good as the older turf horses. he might be the best turf horse in america. i know showing up and cacique are the shortest odds of any american horse in the breeders cup turf futures. your big figure from after market might come in delaware on saturday. he has been very green but is putting it together.

Originally Posted by Revolution

after market is very good. showing up is better right now and i expect cornelio will choose showing up over after market on saturday and going forward. showing up's figures are just as good as the older turf horses. he might be the best turf horse in america. i know showing up and cacique are the shortest odds of any american horse in the breeders cup turf futures. your big figure from after market might come in delaware on saturday. he has been very green but is putting it together.

Showing up is a very good horse. But it is a huge step up when facing older horses (especially older horses of this caliber). Even though the "improvement factor" is much better for 3 years than older horses the jump up in class is, often times, too difficult for 3 year olds. A good example is Lady Of Venice. She looked good at Churchill and she looked good at Saratoga only losing by a shrinking length. If she ran that same race against horses or her own age, she wins by 5+ lengths.

I dont think this board is pro-cacique and anti-showing up. I think the board is using experience and logic when assessing the two horses. But like Gander said, we will see in 48 hours.