UC Davis police attack peaceful demonstraters

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree with everything you said....working as long as I did in the prison system and being directly involved with crowd control as a Military MP, I quite often found myself in scary situations where I feared for my own safety, all that is true BUT it doesn't apply in situations like the one that sparked this thread...calling the victims disgusting dirty hippies or implying they had it coming doesn't work when the visual evidence is front and center. Criminal behavior is criminal behavior whether committed by demonstrators or those in authority.

Zig is right though in that the police are just carrying out their orders from higher up. It's the people ordering the cops who should be arrested. Starting with the federal government.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

wasn't necessarily thinking of you with my post. hypocrisy abounds around here, and elsewhere.

Again, I agree. Walking in someone else's shoes is a practice we can all gain from. My problem is that these brutal episodes seem to be increasing lately, as well as support for them. Folks seem fine with defending folks like Westboro Baptist when they spread their poison but don't allow young or poor folks to express their frustrations. Yes, I know there are legal issues as well as public safety to consider but we didn't hear those concerns when the Tea Party demonstrated.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Zig is right though in that the police are just carrying out their orders from higher up. It's the people ordering the cops who should be arrested. Starting with the federal government.

Again I agree...but as I said before, there is a limit to how far "following orders" works for me.

[Danzig]

i think the problems involved aren't just from one part of the whole equation.

you have protesters ( and yeah, the hippy description is FAR from accurate) who admittedly are pushing the limits; even to the point of trespassing, etc. they absolutely will push as far as they can. perhaps even too far
they are told to move on, they don't. they're told to break camp, they don't.
you have the police, in some cases several different forces working together such as in oakland or on the campus a few days ago which causes a whole new set off issues (not everyone has the same training, guidelines, etc), with administrators saying the kids have to go, and go now.
then you have the chiefs of police, mayors, city councils, etc.
the police are given a job to do, the protestors have their own agenda, and of course city govt has theirs, property owners have theirs. a mix right for an explosion, or several.
and with this society as litigious as it is, i'd have to think the owners of the properties being squatted on are having a collective heart attack...how would you like all that liability hanging over your head?

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Zig is right though in that the police are just carrying out their orders from higher up. It's the people ordering the cops who should be arrested. Starting with the federal government.

yeah right.....are you freakin kiddin me.....like the Nazis were just following orders too. You have to be a real piece of shet to do that to a bunch of kids just sitting there. What kind of man does that to a woman ? Cops should be fired as well as the Chancellor

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

wasn't necessarily thinking of you with my post. hypocrisy abounds around here, and elsewhere.

Well, if you're thinking of me, I certainly haven't said all cops are bad, either. In fact, I've said the opposite on here. The bad cops I've posted here, that are brutal? You bet, they are bad. They are not just "following orders" - they are not even following their training.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Thanks for the list Riot. Now I know who I want to give extra business to. It is not a smear to show filthy dirty hippies in their natural state - it's more of a documentary.

You really have your finger on the pulse of what's happening

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you have protesters ( and yeah, the hippy description is FAR from accurate) who admittedly are pushing the limits; even to the point of trespassing, etc. they absolutely will push as far as they can. perhaps even too far
they are told to move on, they don't. they're told to break camp, they don't.

So in this case, the cops went in, destroyed and removed their tents. The Chancellor said demonstrations on the quad are perfectly fine, it was the tents that had to go.

Then the cops told the chief they were "scared" and trapped by the kids still sitting there peacefully demonstrating.

So the one cop just stepped over those scary, threatening kids (exposing his crotch to them), turned around, showed off his pepper spray, then walked up and down spraying those kids.

And they didn't even arrest anyone. The cops then left. There is no way to paint these two cops as anything other than disgusting.

Berkeley was where "campus free speech" started in the 1960s. It used to be not allowed on any college campus to even talk about politics, if you believe that. Students are citizens, and they have rights, and yes, they have the right, as written in the California public university code, to peacefully demonstrate on college public property - their quad.

Do the cops have a right to tell them to move? Not really. Not any more than cops have a right to tell you that you cannot be on a public street. There are tens of Occupy locations, where they've been for 2 months, no problems at all between the cops and the protesters. It depends upon how far screwed up management is in those towns - or not.

The kids that broke down the fence and invaded private property? Of course they should all be arrested for damage to property, trespass, etc.

[GPK]

I didn't realize that this wasn't an "Occupy UC Davis" thing. The kids were protesting a doubling of their tuition.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GPK

I didn't realize that this wasn't an "Occupy UC Davis" thing. The kids were protesting a doubling of their tuition.

No, they "are" Occupy UC Davis. All the Occupy's are protesting financial abuses. Davis raised tuition 9%, in private, with zero public feedback or input.

http://www.occupytogether.org/actions/

Occupy UC Davis is an ongoing series of Occupy Movement demonstrations at UC Davis. It is distinguished from the off-campus but allied Occupy Davis. Occupy UC Davis gained international attention on November 18, when University police were filmed pepper-spraying a group of peaceful demonstrators as they were seated on a sidewalk.[1] Police officers claimed that demonstrators had surrounded them and that they used the pepper-spray in self-defense, however captured video of the event does not show any threat to the officers. In the wake of this response, at least one officer has been suspended and placed on administrative leave and a call to remove Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi has been initiated.

Background

Occupy UC Davis draws upon non-violent civil disobedience of the kind American Civil Rights Movement and the Arab Spring. It is a a part of the Occupy Movement and closely tied to Occupy Cal.

Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is an ongoing series of demonstrations beginning September 17, 2011, in New York City's Zuccotti Park in the Wall Street financial district. The protests have focused on social and economic inequality, high unemployment, greed, as well as corruption, and the undue influence of corporations—particularly that of the financial services sector—on government. The protesters' slogan We are the 99% refers to the growing difference in wealth in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. The protest since grew into a world-wide movement known as the Occupy Movement.

Occupy Cal is an on-going series of protests at UC Berkeley. A major theme of the Occupy demonstrations at California public universities is the role of education in creating jobs and improving the quality of life of society as a whole, and the contrasting failure of the UC Regents and the State of California to honor commitments made in the California Master Plan for Higher Education. Recent 81% tuition increases for students, mandatory furloughs (including for professors), firings of lower-ranking workers (especially those working directly with students), and well-publicized raises for the highest paid administrators link here have further fueled discontent both within the University of California system (of which UC Davis is a part) and within the California State University system, which has also seen large tuition raises and consequent protests.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, they "are" Occupy UC Davis. All the Occupy's are protesting financial abuses. Davis raised tuition 9%, in private, with zero public feedback or input.

http://www.occupytogether.org/actions/

Nightly news reported tonight that two officers identified in the video along with chief of police have been placed on administrative leave, faculty at school are united in demanding resignation of school president/chancelor(sp).

[Riot]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...wn?via=siderec

Here is a page of what happened today at UC Davis, including multiple videos:

Katehi speaking to Occupy UC Davis General Assembly, apologizing

General Assembly meeting afterwards where faculty and students called for Katehi's resignation, and the disbanding of a campus police department.

It's clear that the students are not backing down from their plans to initiate a general strike (tentatively set for November 28) and to occupy the quad with tents. It's also clear they are not accepting belated statements from administration officials at this stage as sufficient, regardless of the message.

Noteworthy is that the police presence at the rally was virtually non-existent for a massive crowd in the many thousands. This fact stands in stark – and ironic – contrast to the riot police force that sparked all of this when it tried to target a group of about 50 students with chemical agents and raised gas canisters.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

Calls for Chancellor - who said the police were "defending themselves" from these students - to resign. Several students brought to hospital with chemical burns, one coughing up blood.



"Annette Spicuzza, UC Davis police chief, told the Sacramento Bee that police used the pepper spray after they were surrounded. Protesters were warned repeatedly beforehand that force would be used if they didn't move, she said.

"There was no way out of that circle," Spicuzza said. "They were cutting the officers off from their support. It's a very volatile situation."

In the below video, you can see the "trapped" police officer Spicuzza describes, simply stepping over the sitting students, to go to their faces, turn around, and spray them with pepper spray. I'll bet he was really scared, poor officer! Then other officers joined in with the spray.

These morons who love power keep forgetting that there is a new news media out there - everyone - who no longer allows them to lie with impunity when they break the law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=6AdDLhPwpp4#!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1102728.html

Forbes Magazine op-ed contributor E.D. Cain, who is against Occupy protests, calls for end to repeated police violence against Occupy Wall Street protesters in NY.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...eet-is-absurd/

It looks staged to me. Why aren't the cops worried about the people surrounding them? Why didn't it set everyone off? The guy at :14 is great! Officer "not so" friendly at :25 is even better. Why didn't the cops just drag them to the paddy wagon? Why does anyone want Obama's "more cops" bill? I wasn't going to comment. Good friend of mine stopped by last night, his Dad was an Investigator for the N.Y. State Police. This guy is almost as Liberal as I used to be. One of my few friends that follows racing. He said he wanted to go down to join OWS! I said they should all be in Washington. That was where all of our problems start. Lot's of Hippies where I live!

I cant resist! Thank GPK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZwJ...eature=related

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

It looks staged to me. Why aren't the cops worried about the people surrounding them? Why didn't it set everyone off? The guy at :14 is great! Officer "not so" friendly at :25 is even better. Why didn't the cops just drag them to the paddy wagon? Why does anyone want Obama's "more cops" bill? I wasn't going to comment. Good friend of mine stopped by last night, his Dad was an Investigator for the N.Y. State Police. This guy is almost as Liberal as I used to be. One of my few friends that follows racing. He said he wanted to go down to join OWS! I said they should all be in Washington. That was where all of our problems start. Lot's of Hippies where I live!

I cant resist! Thank GPK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZwJ...eature=related

i see 3 policemen in that picture, along with how many others? they're outnumbered how many times over? yep, i dare folks who are pontificating to try it some time.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i see 3 policemen in that picture, along with how many others? they're outnumbered how many times over? yep, i dare folks who are pontificating to try it some time.

Oh come on....I'm outnumbered everytime I go to the track, lots of strangers rooting for other horses but I still root for mine without going for my pepper spray (lol). If the crowd was openly hostile you'd perhaps have a point but even then...been there done that without resorting to abuse. You are trained to ignore verbal abuse in those situations, remain calm and display authority without forcing the crowd's hand. If this was an angry, violent crowd, those officers would have been assaulted for what they did!

[dellinger63]

Protesters should decide what paths, streets, bridges and subways the public should use and when. However if their lawns should ever have weeds, 10 inches or taller, fine them the max, $1,200/day.

I'm starting to catch on to this whole occupy thing.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i see 3 policemen in that picture, along with how many others? they're outnumbered how many times over? yep, i dare folks who are pontificating to try it some time.

If you look at all the other videos (and there are many on the internet, covering the entire incident, not just excerpts like above), there are about 50 policemen there. There are about 30 within the "circle of kids" to the right of the picture, that were "trapped" by the kids sitting with their backs to them, and were "scared" of those "volatile" kids (the cops, btw, had just destroyed the tents, with the kids doing nothing but sit there with their backs to them in a circle while the cops destroyed their tents and property)

So they had to step over the kids, to get to their faces, so they could pepper spray them.

There was no threat. There was only ego-bruising on the part of the two idiots who sprayed the kids.

Kudos to those young people, for being the acme of peaceful protesting in the face of police abuse. MLK would be proud.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Riot

If you look at all the other videos (and there are many on the internet, covering the entire incident, not just excerpts like above), there are about 50 policemen there. There are about 30 within the "circle of kids" to the right of the picture, that were "trapped" by the kids sitting with their backs to them, and were "scared" of those "volatile" kids (the cops, btw, had just destroyed the tents, with the kids doing nothing but sit there with their backs to them in a circle while the cops destroyed their tents and property)

So they had to step over the kids, to get to their faces, so they could pepper spray them.

There was no threat. There was only ego-bruising on the part of the two idiots who sprayed the kids.

Kudos to those young people, for being the acme of peaceful protesting in the face of police abuse. MLK would be proud.

Yes he would! Except 40 some years later we still have criminals in uniform!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Yes he would! Except 40 some years later we still have criminals in uniform!

yep, they make the ones doing things right look bad. a few bad apples....

i think police depts need to take a long look at their training, and how often veteran cops go back for re-training. all other professions require that, i wonder if pd's do? my dad has been retired for years, so i don't know how that goes these days.

i also wonder if a lot of people just aren't taking these protests that seriously-they pale in comparison with others, and a lot of people just don't seem to even get what they're protesting. then of course these big city govts are no doubt beholden to the big businesses, just like congress is beholden to wall street.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yep, they make the ones doing things right look bad. a few bad apples....

i think police depts need to take a long look at their training, and how often veteran cops go back for re-training. all other professions require that, i wonder if pd's do? my dad has been retired for years, so i don't know how that goes these days.

i also wonder if a lot of people just aren't taking these protests that seriously-they pale in comparison with others, and a lot of people just don't seem to even get what they're protesting. then of course these big city govts are no doubt beholden to the big businesses, just like congress is beholden to wall street.

Re-training should be mandatory at all levels of law enforcement, and psychological exams should be more than a formality....those looking to join law enforcement for power and those who project an overly macho mindset should be excluded.